Walmart Distribution Center Fire 4

[OHIOMatt]

Link

As a structural engineer who has worked on similar structures, I have always assumed that this level of fire was a thing of the past in these types of structures. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation and if this will lead to changes in the industry. These mega warehouses are popping up at a significant pace.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Sprinkler systems are pretty much useless for li ion fires.

The showed use a video at work of a iPhone getting trapped by a seat and crushed then dumped in a trash trolley full of water. 3 mins later and they pulled it out and it was still going.

They use a freeze kit now with freezing spray in a explosion containment bag. Which actually seems to work. The two cans of spray manage to get it down to -20 C in the bag.

 

[LCREP]

Testing has been completed on the warehouse storage of Lithium batteries by Factory Mutual a large property insurance carrier. You can download the Data Sheets for free. The Data Sheet COMMODITY CLASSIFICATION 8-1 has the following sprinkler protection design details. So the question is did the sprinkler protection meet this requirement? We will perhaps know when the final report is released on the fire.


2.4.2 Lithium-Ion (Li-ion) Batteries
2.4.2.1 Protect batteries meeting the criteria in Table 3 with 12 (twelve) K22.4 or K25.2 (K320 or K360) sprinklers, operating at 35 psi (2.4 bar). Limit storage to three tiers high (maximum 15 ft (4.5 m) high in racks or palletized). No storage is permitted above the batteries. Ceiling height is limited to 40 ft (12 m).
For storage of batteries that falls outside the criteria given in Table 3, Scheme A protection per Data Sheet 7-29, Ignitable Liquid Storage in Portable Containers, is recommended.

Video on the full scale test for battery storage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeaK9V69Xks

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Water doesn't suppress them though only thing that does anything is take the heat away and get the temp to below 0 Deg C.

Btw these batteries are a big problem in aviation.

 

[LCREP]

Alistair,

See my post above and video. ONE sprinkler extinguished the fire. Just an example of 1 of the tests they did on one type of battery and storage configuration.

 

[dik]

What does Lithium react with to oxidize? Can you use foam? like for carbon fuel fires?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

Do they have special heat detectors for these warehouses? I know for many of the 747 hangars I've done they have a detector that works on UV/IR and looks for a carbon spike. They are extremely fast operating and in a matter of seconds will fill the hangar with foam.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

Do these type of warehouses, with their fire load, fall into a building classification similar to Industrial-high hazard?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LCREP]

dik

In a typical warehouse you will find a wet system, pipe filled with water, as long as temperature is above 40f. If unheated a dry system, no water in the pipe, just air, is used. You can have a delay of 1 minute for water to get to the fire in a dry system.

With ESFR systems in a warehouse they are wet. Full scale testing has shown the ceiling sprinklers operate in under 30 seconds and the fire can be extinguished within 2-3 minutes. They design for 12 heads operating but typically 4-6 will operate above the fire. The sprinkler system in a warehouse will cover 40K sq. ft. If you watch the videos I posted you will get an idea of how quick and how many they activate.

Storage warehouses are not protected by deluge systems. Why, too much water damage when all of sprinklers discharge, lot of$$ to maintain. In fire protection keep it simple less can go wrong!

Very few warehouses in addition to the sprinkler system can use projection beam smoke detectors to provide early warning. A single receiver and beam device I believe can cover 10k sq. ft.

 

[LCREP]

Dik,

As per NFPA 13

5.3.2.2 Dedicated and miscellaneous storage shall be protected in accordance with Chapter 12 and Chapter 13 as applicable.

Storage occupancies have separate sprinkler protection design criteria for storage above 5-12 ft depending on the type of storage class 1-IV commodity and plastics. Flammable and combustible liquids are out of the scope of NFPA 13 and covered by NFPA 30 and Aerosol storage NFPA 30B. Are you having fun yet?

 

[dik]

Thanks...


Yup... happier than a pig in poop...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Must admit it's interesting for a work POV and personal

I went for a bud liFePo4 solar battery because I didn't want li ion in my house.

They show us cargo containers going up and halon doesn't touch them. They die down for a bit but then the heat builds up again and off it goes.

The canister li ion cells which you get in hand tools go off like a line of Chinese fire works.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Has the FM test been repeated with the ignition source being a remotely shorted (ie internally overheated) battery pack? You might get the same action by using a restive charcoal igniter embedded in the center of the bottom crate, then packed with a load of batteries. The video is impressive, but the after photo shows minimal involvement of the internals of the battery packs.

Firefighters turned off part of sprinkler system at Plainfield Walmart fulfillment center

The final investigation report will definitely be an interesting read.

Regarding the sprinkler system. Once you pass say 3x the design case, or once the fire damages the sprinkler pipe supports (and causes the pipes to become uncoupled), the effectiveness becomes dramatically less.
Possible scenario could be roof damage indicated that a section of the sprinkler piping was mechanically failed, which would render the system unable to feed sprinklers in that section. It is reasonable for the fire department to divert the available water to parts of the system that still functioned, particularly as the water supply became stressed.

 

[LCREP]

FacEngPE

For your reading pleasure what the fire protection community has done and planned for Lithium Ion storage systems. Short answer did some testing more needed!

FM

https://www.fmglobal.com/research-a...~/media/58F4DDFC28A146A59D5CEEC18EC4A6A8.ashx

NFPA

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...-for-Lithium-Ion-Based-Energy-Storage-Systems

 

[dik]

Excellent articles... thanks

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[FacEngrPE]

LCREP, this picture (in the report you shared) is exactly what I was considering should be one of the test scenarios. IE forcing a thermal runaway is much different from igniting the cardboard container.

https://www.fmglobal.com/research-and-resources/research-and-testing/~/media/58F4DDFC28A146A59D5CEEC18EC4A6A8.ashx[/URL]]

Thanks for finding and sharing these reports.

 

[LCREP]

FacEngPE,

The problem with full scale testing is the limitations on the cost of the tests. This is just one storage scenario they tested perhaps by the manufacturer of the battery hence the product donation. It may take years to complete all the testing to provide a comprehensive fire protection design for most storage configurations. So if you have a few million$$ burning a hole in your pocket here you go a place to spend it….lol

But if you have the exact product and storage configuration you are good to go!

I believe in the USA we have 3 full scale fire protection testing facilities UL, FM and the 3rd one escapes my old brain. I saw a full scale test at UL many years ago it was a fun day.

 

[MortenA]

... and what about the secret tunnels connecting all the Wallmarts - oh wait - thats only in Texas LOL

--- Best regards, Morten Andersen

 

[cranky108]

Those tunnels are to only be used by new employees coming to work on there first day.

 

[bones206]

I remember working for Walmart as a teenager. They systematically shorted my paycheck and manipulated the punch-clock system. After putting up with it for a few months I left a letter in the manager's office explaining that I had figured out their little scam, walked out and never looked back. Couple years later I got a letter in the mail informing me that I was eligible for a nationwide class action lawsuit related to the pay scam. Imagine stealing from someone making $5.50/hr...

 

[EdStainless]

LFP (often called Lifepo4) chemistry has lower energy density and current density but is both safer and will tolerate more charge/discharge cycles.

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed