Water vs. soil 1

[CAS1]

I'm in such a bind that I'm desperate for your help/opinions.

When we moved into our house 10 years ago, the foundation had a hairline crack next to the flood vent in the right rear quarter of our house (we are on a crawl). The crack hadn't changed in 10 years. During Hurricane Sandy we had 8 inches of flood water, the crack expanded significantly, another crack developed on the opposite side of the house, and the back of our house started leaning backwards (in the direction of the flood water flow).

The flood waters flowed from the street to the side of our house (where the crack was) and continued into our back yard. The flow started to curve towards the house right about where the crack is.

My husband inspected the house while the flood waters were still present and the damage was completed before the water went away. The engineer from the insurance company stated that the damage happened from soil reconsolidation so our claim was denied because of an earth movement exclusion.

Please, is there any way that the flood water did the damage? If it's at all possible that the water did the damage, and not soil movement, then we will be covered.

Thank you so much for your help. If you believe in karma, then karma owes you one for helping me ....

 

[SteelPE]

I am sorry for your troubles

If you believe so greatly that the flood caused this problem and that the insurance company is wrong, then you need to hire a local engineer to try and refute the claim from the insurance company (yes, people do this). Possibly a geotechnical engineering company who has experience in dealing with problems similar to yours. Hiring an independent adjuster is possible as well. However, you must be prepared to pay these professionals for their services even if they side with the insurance company. Unfortunately, asking questions on a message board for professional engineers is not going to get you anywhere with your insurance company.

 

[OHIOMatt]

Based upon your post, it sounds as if you are saying that the insurance company engineer has linked the soil consolidation to the flood. If that is the case, how can they deny the claim? I would speak directly to the adjuster, higher your own engineer, ect.

In my area, we have had several severe weather events over the last few years. At first, the insurance companies were covering claims that I felt were very questionable. Now, obvious claims are being denied and fought tooth and nail. It seems like there has been a shift in coverage as these events stack up.

 

[CAS1]

Thank you for your answer. I tried getting my own engineer but they are so back-logged from the hurricane that they're booking months out. My insurance company has to side with me if there's a possibility that it was caused by water and not soil movement. I just need to know if it's possible that this was caused by water and not soil. If there is a question as to how it happened, the insurance company has to err in favor of the insured.

 

[Ron]

Your insurance company is playing a semantic game. Get a lawyer involved. Yes, it is soil movement; however, but for the water the soil movement would not likely have occurred as demonstrated by the history of the structure.

Water caused the soil to move.

 

[CAS1]

The lawyer wants 50% of the recovery plus fees.

The flood insurance policy has a loophole that they can exclude soil movement even if the soil moved because of flood waters. I have to prove that there is a possibilty, even if it's only slight, that the water could have caused it.

 

[CAS1]

I have a Senator involved but I'm trying to do this on my own so I can start rebuilding. The Senator could take some time.

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

The only way you are going to prevail is to high an engineer to review the facts and give you an opinion. If it takes a couple of months, it takes a couple of months.

As for the lawer, don't hire them on contingency. Pay them for the time it takes at their hourly rate, same as you will pay the engineer. Lawers do work this way, just not the ones that spend a lot on advertising.

You have a probelm and I'm sorry. But blaming the insurance company for your problems will not help you.

Mike Lambert

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

You posted while I was typing.

WHY would you get a Senator involved.

YOU have a problem with YOUR insurance company. Deal with it, don't expect others to solve your problems.

Mike Lambert

 

[CAS1]

I have the Senator involved because FEMA is supposed to step up and help when your insurance company denies the claim. FEMA keeps telling me that they can't help and that I have to go after my insurance company.

I have been dealing with my problem to the point of being ill and needing doctor's care. I'm a lady and I have feelings you know...

 

[OHIOMatt]

GeoPaveTraffic, I would be willing to bet, that in this case the insurance company providing flood insurance is the federal government.

 

[Ron]

You have two possibilities based on the exclusion in your policy (that's assuming the exclusion is legal...sometimes they are not!!).

You can try to prove buoyancy from the rising water...possible but difficult
You can try to prove slight lateral movement from the water flowing by and around your house....probably more difficult than the buoyancy, but not impossible.

Good luck.

 

[SteelPE]

If your insurance company is dug in then you are going to end up with an engineer and you will probably end up with a lawyer. You can't be the only one with this problem. Did your neighbors experience similar problems?

 

[OHIOMatt]

CAS1, unfortunately, your only recourse is to higher an engineer (I would hold off on the lawyer until you have something to refute the insurance company with). To expedite you could look on your state's professional engineering website to see if you could get a roster of engineers. In some cases, you can find engineers living out of state, that are licensed to practice in your area. It will cost you more, but you may be able to get them there quicker.

Are your covered by National Flood Insurance Program or by a conventional insurer?

 

[CAS1]

Thank you Ron. Even if it's a long shot, if there is any possibility that the cause was from water, then I can get the claim approved.

SteelPE, we are at the lowest point in our neighborhood. My one neighbor got approval somehow to elevate their yard and it now drains into our yard.

 

[CAS1]

OHIOMatt, flood insurance by a private company is what we have but it's still regulated by FEMA.

 

[CAS1]

I want to thank everybody for their help. I especially want to thank Ron who gave me possible ways for the water to have done the damage. I am using Ron's possibilities to prove to the insurance company that they cannot, without a doubt, say the damage was from soil movement.

Thanks again and wish me luck.

 

[vagarwalstr]

You may ask one of these charitable organizations to send an engineer to look and recommend. Although they don't do this kind of stuff, but they may be able to help. Contact and see.

Architecture for Humanity
Engineering Ministeries International
ASCE Disaster Assistance Volunteer Program
Engineers without borders
Habitat for Humanity

 

[CAS1]

Thank you so much vagarwalstr! I really appreciate it.

I spoke to the structural engineer from the insurance company and asked him if there's any way that the damage was caused by hydrostatic or hydrodynamic loads (or anything water related), and if so, would he please revise his report to say that it was possibly caused by water. He told me he has to get the okay from his boss to revise the report. My insurance company is contacting his boss and asking them to re-evaluate my claim.

The reason they are cooperating with me is that they did a couple of illegal things with my claim in the begining. I pointed those things out and they eventually corrected them. Even with the structural engineer, they told him to find a reason to deny the claim. Now that a Senator is involved, they are trying to work with me, instead of against me.

I carried the maximum flood insurance for 10 years ($250,000) and now that I need it I'm getting the run around. The system is messed up. FEMA runs it, need I say more?