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Way of designing 8
- Thread starter linqur
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Still, I have no degree so what does that make me?
Really good at what you do without the arrogant attitude.
Now I'm just assuming you are not arrogant, but most people that work up to their position in life tend to be less arrogant than those people that get there from a text book -- and that's coming from a textbook taught engineer who is now working on the experience part, with lessons in humility along the way.
Really good at what you do without the arrogant attitude.
Now I'm just assuming you are not arrogant, but most people that work up to their position in life tend to be less arrogant than those people that get there from a text book -- and that's coming from a textbook taught engineer who is now working on the experience part, with lessons in humility along the way.
Swertel,
I did the learning through experience thing for a few years then realized it was only going to get me so far so I went off to get a degree (actually I studied for the degree at the same time, which is somewhat harder). Without the degree or some other formal study you have the following problems:
1/ You can only learn from your immediate environment.
2/ New problems may stump you if your breadth of knowledge is limited.
3/ You may never learn some of the more refined aspects of Engineering science which will allow you to use your abilities to the full.
4/ You may have difficulty proving to a potential new employer just what a clever person you really are.
You may also find yourself getting really defensive in the presence of people with degrees. In my opinion, you need a bit of both to be a good designer.
I did the learning through experience thing for a few years then realized it was only going to get me so far so I went off to get a degree (actually I studied for the degree at the same time, which is somewhat harder). Without the degree or some other formal study you have the following problems:
1/ You can only learn from your immediate environment.
2/ New problems may stump you if your breadth of knowledge is limited.
3/ You may never learn some of the more refined aspects of Engineering science which will allow you to use your abilities to the full.
4/ You may have difficulty proving to a potential new employer just what a clever person you really are.
You may also find yourself getting really defensive in the presence of people with degrees. In my opinion, you need a bit of both to be a good designer.
And, might I add, that some of those with degrees not only get defensive but are also arrogant!
Starrider, you sound very humble yet knowledgable. I think I would like working with you. I imagine we could accomplish a great deal.
Swertel, you obviously have keen insight. You must be good at what you do also.
I think that years have a way of humbling you (if you let them - and that's a good thing!)
Starrider, you sound very humble yet knowledgable. I think I would like working with you. I imagine we could accomplish a great deal.
Swertel, you obviously have keen insight. You must be good at what you do also.
I think that years have a way of humbling you (if you let them - and that's a good thing!)
smokehouse
Mechanical
I sincerely believe that the longer anyone is in engineering/designing, the more humble he/she will become..
Because as time goes on and the more OTHER ideas you see, the more you realize that there are a TON of other ideas and smart people out there.
The most arrogant people I see is the Jr engineer that is "in charge" of a certain project.. That is the one that seems to think they have to "impress" people the most.
A wise man once told me," If you're good at something, you don't have to tell anyone....They know."
Because as time goes on and the more OTHER ideas you see, the more you realize that there are a TON of other ideas and smart people out there.
The most arrogant people I see is the Jr engineer that is "in charge" of a certain project.. That is the one that seems to think they have to "impress" people the most.
A wise man once told me," If you're good at something, you don't have to tell anyone....They know."
I certainly know where you're coming from smokehouse.
None of us like cocky juniors but we were all junior once and at least the cocky ones turn up to work and don't fall asleep. A few crash-and-burns can take the edge off the cockyness but leave the drive and confidence needed to try new ideas.
None of us like cocky juniors but we were all junior once and at least the cocky ones turn up to work and don't fall asleep. A few crash-and-burns can take the edge off the cockyness but leave the drive and confidence needed to try new ideas.
StarrRider
Mechanical
Swertel
Thank you. I don't believe I have an arrogant attitude, but then again, who does?
Actually, I have a flat forehead! It comes from years of smashing my hand against it when I finally notice something obvious. The sound of that blow is always accompanied by a groan and the word 'Stupid!' It doesn't help that other designers / engineers missed it as well.
Biggadike
You are correct as far as you went. There are two other items that should be added.
5/ Automatic Screening (BS mandatory) eliminates a large percentage of the jobs available. It may not be a rocket science position but ability only counts if your resume is not automatically put in the reject pile.
6/ If you do get the position, it almost becomes a trap and your employer knows it. Because of 5/ you are much less likely to change jobs or to even complain. Your salary may be higher but it will still be on the low side of the papered (BS) scale.
I am not sure of the validity of #2 because I love a challenge. There have been many times when an assignment has taken me into new territory, and I love it every time it happens. Personally, I believe that the surest way to evaluate someone is to give them an assignment (that they are unfamiliar with) and watch how they react. Floundering is only permitted for a short time. If you toss them in the water and they learn to swim, you know that you can safely invest more time in them because they are worth it.
As to getting defensive. I have never cared about who has what degree or not. People are people. I respect people who are decisive, knowledgeable, and committed to doing the best that they can.
I don't mind criticism from any source. I try to make friends with the people on the production floor and especially with every Machinist in the machine shop. These people can make or break you. (I've seen machinists standing idle, trying not to be noticed, while waiting to complain about a missing dimension on a print. They didn't like the guy who's name was on the drawing. I want them to call me.)
I do want the ability to defend myself and my design before any other option is considered. I have had occasions where a manager has scrapped a design without really looking at it or allowing me to explain why I made the choices I made. I find this is intolerable. I may have been on the wrong tract, in his opinion, but that does not excuse common curtsey.
Every time I become unemployed I wish I had it to do over again. I have over 100 credit hours and was in college and was sitting on 3 AA degrees when I quit (my wife gave me an ultimatum to move to Florida or else). I have looked various colleges since then but every time they want me to almost start over again. Yes, the credits are still there but they don't apply.
Rousell
Thank you. Maybe someday.
Lee
Thank you. I don't believe I have an arrogant attitude, but then again, who does?
Actually, I have a flat forehead! It comes from years of smashing my hand against it when I finally notice something obvious. The sound of that blow is always accompanied by a groan and the word 'Stupid!' It doesn't help that other designers / engineers missed it as well.
Biggadike
You are correct as far as you went. There are two other items that should be added.
5/ Automatic Screening (BS mandatory) eliminates a large percentage of the jobs available. It may not be a rocket science position but ability only counts if your resume is not automatically put in the reject pile.
6/ If you do get the position, it almost becomes a trap and your employer knows it. Because of 5/ you are much less likely to change jobs or to even complain. Your salary may be higher but it will still be on the low side of the papered (BS) scale.
I am not sure of the validity of #2 because I love a challenge. There have been many times when an assignment has taken me into new territory, and I love it every time it happens. Personally, I believe that the surest way to evaluate someone is to give them an assignment (that they are unfamiliar with) and watch how they react. Floundering is only permitted for a short time. If you toss them in the water and they learn to swim, you know that you can safely invest more time in them because they are worth it.
As to getting defensive. I have never cared about who has what degree or not. People are people. I respect people who are decisive, knowledgeable, and committed to doing the best that they can.
I don't mind criticism from any source. I try to make friends with the people on the production floor and especially with every Machinist in the machine shop. These people can make or break you. (I've seen machinists standing idle, trying not to be noticed, while waiting to complain about a missing dimension on a print. They didn't like the guy who's name was on the drawing. I want them to call me.)
I do want the ability to defend myself and my design before any other option is considered. I have had occasions where a manager has scrapped a design without really looking at it or allowing me to explain why I made the choices I made. I find this is intolerable. I may have been on the wrong tract, in his opinion, but that does not excuse common curtsey.
Every time I become unemployed I wish I had it to do over again. I have over 100 credit hours and was in college and was sitting on 3 AA degrees when I quit (my wife gave me an ultimatum to move to Florida or else). I have looked various colleges since then but every time they want me to almost start over again. Yes, the credits are still there but they don't apply.
Rousell
Thank you. Maybe someday.
Lee
Oh! Every time I think that I won't add any more to this thread you guys say something that sparks another thought or interest (we should all design something together)!
I just wanted to say yes and amen to what StarrRider said about a manager nixxing a design before letting you explain it or defend it! I abhore that!
I once had an Electrical Designer suggest to me a way of doing something. Don't get me wrong - this guy was great - at electrical design. We were like brothers. I did the mechanical, he did the electrical. I never tried to do his job but he ALWAYS thought he could do mine.
Anyway, he made this suggestion and I asked him to explain it to me. I asked him to show me why it was a better idea than I what I was doing. I wasn't poo-pooing his idea but I had lots of thought in my design and I thought that if wanted me to do it his way the least he could do was defend his idea. He got really angry and called me an egotistical, arrogant bastard. He claimed that I never listened to anyone's ideas. I pointed out several example of where I had recently used several ideas from others (mainly a programmer on one of the CNC machines) and how I made sure that he got recognition and credit at the meetings (even those that he wasn't a part of). I told my electrical buddy that if the idea didn't work that I could not tell the owner (I worked directly under the owner, so did he) that I did it because the electrical guy told me to. He would ask me who was doing my job! I told the electrical guy (nameless obviously) that he needed to sell me on the idea before I was willing to put my name on it. He just got pissed and stomped away.
Several hours later I get a call from the owner (who worked and lived in another state) with this 'fresh' idea. He tells me that he wants to 'try' something that he just thought of. His idea was the same as the electrical guy. I told him why I thought it was faulty (he had a sales background, not engineering). He told me he was the boss and to do it anyway. I told him alright.
I went to visit my electrical buddy at his office. I told him that I had just gotten a call from the owner. He went ballistic. He told me "Yeah, I called him. He thought it was a great idea and now he knows whose idea it was too."
We proceeded to make ten machines with the new 'idea'. We didn't prototype it (per the owner's instruction). The parts were made to spec. They all fit together nicely but...... the concept didn't work. We lost several thousand dollars and a lot of time (we were a small company and couldn't really absorb big blunders like a large company can). I resented working on it even though I did it all according to the 'idea' the electrical guy gave. (In other words, I didn't sabotage his idea).
When I asked him about it afterwards he said "Hey, it was just a suggestion. I'm not the mechanical designer, you are. You didn't have to do it." The owner actually called me and apologized. He told me that he hired me to to the design and that from now on he would leave it to me. (He never could keep his hands out of things but he actually had some really good ideas from time to time.)
I quit that job and started my own business. The company went under. (Not because of me leaving but because of how it was poorly managed. Since the owner lived out of state - when the cat's away, the mice will play.)
I correspond every few months with the electrical guy although things have always been cool since then. That was about 5 years ago.
Sorry, I had to vent.
I just wanted to say yes and amen to what StarrRider said about a manager nixxing a design before letting you explain it or defend it! I abhore that!
I once had an Electrical Designer suggest to me a way of doing something. Don't get me wrong - this guy was great - at electrical design. We were like brothers. I did the mechanical, he did the electrical. I never tried to do his job but he ALWAYS thought he could do mine.
Anyway, he made this suggestion and I asked him to explain it to me. I asked him to show me why it was a better idea than I what I was doing. I wasn't poo-pooing his idea but I had lots of thought in my design and I thought that if wanted me to do it his way the least he could do was defend his idea. He got really angry and called me an egotistical, arrogant bastard. He claimed that I never listened to anyone's ideas. I pointed out several example of where I had recently used several ideas from others (mainly a programmer on one of the CNC machines) and how I made sure that he got recognition and credit at the meetings (even those that he wasn't a part of). I told my electrical buddy that if the idea didn't work that I could not tell the owner (I worked directly under the owner, so did he) that I did it because the electrical guy told me to. He would ask me who was doing my job! I told the electrical guy (nameless obviously) that he needed to sell me on the idea before I was willing to put my name on it. He just got pissed and stomped away.
Several hours later I get a call from the owner (who worked and lived in another state) with this 'fresh' idea. He tells me that he wants to 'try' something that he just thought of. His idea was the same as the electrical guy. I told him why I thought it was faulty (he had a sales background, not engineering). He told me he was the boss and to do it anyway. I told him alright.
I went to visit my electrical buddy at his office. I told him that I had just gotten a call from the owner. He went ballistic. He told me "Yeah, I called him. He thought it was a great idea and now he knows whose idea it was too."
We proceeded to make ten machines with the new 'idea'. We didn't prototype it (per the owner's instruction). The parts were made to spec. They all fit together nicely but...... the concept didn't work. We lost several thousand dollars and a lot of time (we were a small company and couldn't really absorb big blunders like a large company can). I resented working on it even though I did it all according to the 'idea' the electrical guy gave. (In other words, I didn't sabotage his idea).
When I asked him about it afterwards he said "Hey, it was just a suggestion. I'm not the mechanical designer, you are. You didn't have to do it." The owner actually called me and apologized. He told me that he hired me to to the design and that from now on he would leave it to me. (He never could keep his hands out of things but he actually had some really good ideas from time to time.)
I quit that job and started my own business. The company went under. (Not because of me leaving but because of how it was poorly managed. Since the owner lived out of state - when the cat's away, the mice will play.)
I correspond every few months with the electrical guy although things have always been cool since then. That was about 5 years ago.
Sorry, I had to vent.
StarrRider
Mechanical
Rousell
I sympathizes. I really do, but at least the owner did apologize to you and he did pay for his mistake.
I've worked for a couple of different people who were like that. Not being able to keep from helping I mean. At one place the owner oversaw the bidding on all jobs and recommended a solution. The jobs were simple and the pace was very fast. From bid acceptance to shipment averaged 2 weeks. In a normally week I would do 1 or 2 of the more complex jobs and 3 to 5 simple ones. At that speed, mistakes happen, especially with a 2D Cad system.
The owner never got angry, even if I didn't follow his suggestion. Further, he made it plain that offering an explanation was pointless. When something blew up, he would sit there with a half smile on his face staring at me until I had a solution or a way to fix the problem. Remaking parts was never an option even if it was obvious that something was not to print.
It took me far to long to figure out how to handle him or what he wanted, but after I did, it became easy. All he wanted to hear was "I'll take care of it!" As soon as he heard that everything was fine.
You are right about this thread though. It is getting rather long. Maybe we should start another one labeled "Just Venting"!!! That ought to be good for a least a couple hundred responses. <Big Grin>
Lee
I sympathizes. I really do, but at least the owner did apologize to you and he did pay for his mistake.
I've worked for a couple of different people who were like that. Not being able to keep from helping I mean. At one place the owner oversaw the bidding on all jobs and recommended a solution. The jobs were simple and the pace was very fast. From bid acceptance to shipment averaged 2 weeks. In a normally week I would do 1 or 2 of the more complex jobs and 3 to 5 simple ones. At that speed, mistakes happen, especially with a 2D Cad system.
The owner never got angry, even if I didn't follow his suggestion. Further, he made it plain that offering an explanation was pointless. When something blew up, he would sit there with a half smile on his face staring at me until I had a solution or a way to fix the problem. Remaking parts was never an option even if it was obvious that something was not to print.
It took me far to long to figure out how to handle him or what he wanted, but after I did, it became easy. All he wanted to hear was "I'll take care of it!" As soon as he heard that everything was fine.
You are right about this thread though. It is getting rather long. Maybe we should start another one labeled "Just Venting"!!! That ought to be good for a least a couple hundred responses. <Big Grin>
Lee
Oooh Rousell,
Now you've done it.. We'll have to make this thread its own web-site.
We had a software and electronics manager who did that stuff all the time. His attitude (which is REALLY common with software engineers) is that his stuff was difficult, everyone elses was easy. Luckily no-one ever forced me to take on his ideas. Not so with managers who haven't really been paying attention to your project but turn up, give it 5 minutes thought and force you to implement their half-arsed idea and get really shirty when you try and discuss it with them. I used to get that all the time but age, experience and being proved right a few times have taken their toll.
For me, the big lesson with study over experience happened when I got to design an entire machine on my own for the first time. It was a smaller version of one we already made and it had to be lighter, cheaper.. you know the score.
I had this really great idea for the main assembly which was really light and simple. I did some stress calculations (there was a lot of stress) sized the components accordingly and we made the first prototype. The thing was, it didn't quite work. There was just too much flex in the assembly and unexpected bits were bending. No-one elese had the time or inclination to work with me and get the idea off the ground when we all knew we could put in a smaller version of the existing design. The thing is, I've since studied a good number of engineering courses and I believe that if I did the same thing today, I could make it work. Often its the little subtle details of how stuff behaves which throws you and its very difficult to understand materials at a microscopic and atomic level without studying materials science. Thats when degrees really come in handy.
Now you've done it.. We'll have to make this thread its own web-site.
We had a software and electronics manager who did that stuff all the time. His attitude (which is REALLY common with software engineers) is that his stuff was difficult, everyone elses was easy. Luckily no-one ever forced me to take on his ideas. Not so with managers who haven't really been paying attention to your project but turn up, give it 5 minutes thought and force you to implement their half-arsed idea and get really shirty when you try and discuss it with them. I used to get that all the time but age, experience and being proved right a few times have taken their toll.
For me, the big lesson with study over experience happened when I got to design an entire machine on my own for the first time. It was a smaller version of one we already made and it had to be lighter, cheaper.. you know the score.
I had this really great idea for the main assembly which was really light and simple. I did some stress calculations (there was a lot of stress) sized the components accordingly and we made the first prototype. The thing was, it didn't quite work. There was just too much flex in the assembly and unexpected bits were bending. No-one elese had the time or inclination to work with me and get the idea off the ground when we all knew we could put in a smaller version of the existing design. The thing is, I've since studied a good number of engineering courses and I believe that if I did the same thing today, I could make it work. Often its the little subtle details of how stuff behaves which throws you and its very difficult to understand materials at a microscopic and atomic level without studying materials science. Thats when degrees really come in handy.
StarrRider
Mechanical
Biggadike
I do have to agree with you. Material Science is one of my many weaknesses and I know it. In this case, I have a (mental) list of tried an true materials that I know and uses constantly. When I have to use something else, I spend time in the catalogs and on the web and come up with some likely candidates. The next stop is always the machine shop (it is almost a certainty that someone down there will hate one of my choices - they also offer alternatives). Finally, if there is time, I'll order samples of the best choice and a couple of alternatives (just in case) and play with it in the machine shop and under the conditions where I plan to use it. If there isn't, I am not so proud that I'm above asking for help from another engineer, my manager, or even the VP of Engineering.
You see, I did read your last sentence and I do understand your point. The thing is that everyone is weak in one area or another. That isn't what matters. What does matter is how you handle those weaknesses. I am weak in many areas and I know it. It does make me a little slower, and a lot more careful, but I can not let that stop me. I love what I'm doing, using my head and finding solutions.
Lee
I do have to agree with you. Material Science is one of my many weaknesses and I know it. In this case, I have a (mental) list of tried an true materials that I know and uses constantly. When I have to use something else, I spend time in the catalogs and on the web and come up with some likely candidates. The next stop is always the machine shop (it is almost a certainty that someone down there will hate one of my choices - they also offer alternatives). Finally, if there is time, I'll order samples of the best choice and a couple of alternatives (just in case) and play with it in the machine shop and under the conditions where I plan to use it. If there isn't, I am not so proud that I'm above asking for help from another engineer, my manager, or even the VP of Engineering.
You see, I did read your last sentence and I do understand your point. The thing is that everyone is weak in one area or another. That isn't what matters. What does matter is how you handle those weaknesses. I am weak in many areas and I know it. It does make me a little slower, and a lot more careful, but I can not let that stop me. I love what I'm doing, using my head and finding solutions.
Lee
StarrRider,
Materials science is a good example of an area which many people fall down on, even those with degrees. I have tended to specialise in it when studying but compared to a full-on materials scientist I'm below novice grade. Even degrees don't always help. A few collegues of mine have Engineering Degrees but because they were focused away from pure Engineering Science, they have little more than a rudimentary understanding of the core sciences and very little knowledge of materials. I've been in your situation myself and decided that I'd rather spend seven years filling in all the gaps in my knowledge than always feel like I knew 'not quite enough'. That's just the decision I made from where I stood at the time. It worked well for me; studying engineering while practicing it is a potent combination which I find gives you an edge on those who live on a campus while they study then try to reconsile that knowledge in the 'real world'.
Materials science is a good example of an area which many people fall down on, even those with degrees. I have tended to specialise in it when studying but compared to a full-on materials scientist I'm below novice grade. Even degrees don't always help. A few collegues of mine have Engineering Degrees but because they were focused away from pure Engineering Science, they have little more than a rudimentary understanding of the core sciences and very little knowledge of materials. I've been in your situation myself and decided that I'd rather spend seven years filling in all the gaps in my knowledge than always feel like I knew 'not quite enough'. That's just the decision I made from where I stood at the time. It worked well for me; studying engineering while practicing it is a potent combination which I find gives you an edge on those who live on a campus while they study then try to reconsile that knowledge in the 'real world'.
Practical application of theories you have learned will always go a long way in making them stick in your head. ![[pipe]](/data/assets/smilies/pipe.gif "[pipe] [pipe]")
I work with a number of engineers, and I wonder why some even went into the engineering field to begin with. I have always thought that wanting to be an engineer (electrical, mechanical, etc) was a mental defect that a person was born with. Don't get me wrong, but that was a compliment.
I know an engineer (mechanical) that completed thier MBA right after getting their PE. They had hopes of moving up the corporate ladder, but things aren't working out for them. They tried to give this person some management positions, but the person isn't a leader, and has no vision. Now this engineer is nothing more than a glorified call cesk technician. I can only think of the wasted time, money and effort that went into a ME and then a MBA, only to be satisfied with dealing with customers all day. "The attempt and not the deed confounds us."
I work with a number of engineers, and I wonder why some even went into the engineering field to begin with. I have always thought that wanting to be an engineer (electrical, mechanical, etc) was a mental defect that a person was born with. Don't get me wrong, but that was a compliment.
I know an engineer (mechanical) that completed thier MBA right after getting their PE. They had hopes of moving up the corporate ladder, but things aren't working out for them. They tried to give this person some management positions, but the person isn't a leader, and has no vision. Now this engineer is nothing more than a glorified call cesk technician. I can only think of the wasted time, money and effort that went into a ME and then a MBA, only to be satisfied with dealing with customers all day. "The attempt and not the deed confounds us."
Lets face it, you can hide away in university for as long as you like, work hard, get as many qualifications as you can but if deep down you're useless then sooner or later its gonna show up.
The problem is that people like that give good people with the same qualifications a bad name. Its the same with Institutes who will make someone a member just on the basis of their qualifiactions when they might be a useless engineer who was just good at cramming for college exams.
I sit next to just such a person and boy does it make it hard to get enthusiastic about stuff when you've seen what an idiot with a good looking CV can achieve above good talented engineers!
Boy we've tapped a rich seam of resentment and bile here..
PS- I'm struggling to chose between:
Why didn't anyone tell me about the communication problem?
and
The blame-culture was his fault..
As my motto. Any suggestions?
The problem is that people like that give good people with the same qualifications a bad name. Its the same with Institutes who will make someone a member just on the basis of their qualifiactions when they might be a useless engineer who was just good at cramming for college exams.
I sit next to just such a person and boy does it make it hard to get enthusiastic about stuff when you've seen what an idiot with a good looking CV can achieve above good talented engineers!
Boy we've tapped a rich seam of resentment and bile here..
PS- I'm struggling to chose between:
Why didn't anyone tell me about the communication problem?
and
The blame-culture was his fault..
As my motto. Any suggestions?
Ford already tried use non-engineering guys for management position. The premise was simple- managers need MBA because they should know how to manage not to stick their noses into particular problems. Although it might look attractive? It turned to be deadly wrong. Management meetings where the guys discuss technical issues without understanding what they are talking about. We call this “opinion-based management”. The result – you know – look at the quality. Now – full reverse. A bit toooooooo late. Viktor
smokehouse
Mechanical
Ford quality is in "full" reverse???? Didn't I just see a new showcase Mustang on TV the other night??
To insist on a leader with an MBA is myopic...I know MBA ppl that couldn't lead a group of boy scouts across the street.
A good, formal education SHOULD be a qualifier and many times it is..
But it's up to the individual !!!!
In my line of work (plastic mold design/build), a class A tool maker STILL makes the best designer.
OK, what is a class A toolmaker?? And why do I say this?
He is a man that KNOWS what will work... he can run ALL the equipment ...He can read any blueprint...He has a formal education in engineering....(HE CAN DESIGN TOO)... Has worked on the floor .. is capable of RUNNING a mold shop... Which means he can answer ALL questions.
NOW HEAR THIS..... This is a person that can do it all..HAS DONE IT ALL.....This is NOT a snuff-chewing slob...The candidate I'm talking about is a class A toolmaker...
Please understand the meaning of "class A".
To insist on a leader with an MBA is myopic...I know MBA ppl that couldn't lead a group of boy scouts across the street.
A good, formal education SHOULD be a qualifier and many times it is..
But it's up to the individual !!!!
In my line of work (plastic mold design/build), a class A tool maker STILL makes the best designer.
OK, what is a class A toolmaker?? And why do I say this?
He is a man that KNOWS what will work... he can run ALL the equipment ...He can read any blueprint...He has a formal education in engineering....(HE CAN DESIGN TOO)... Has worked on the floor .. is capable of RUNNING a mold shop... Which means he can answer ALL questions.
NOW HEAR THIS..... This is a person that can do it all..HAS DONE IT ALL.....This is NOT a snuff-chewing slob...The candidate I'm talking about is a class A toolmaker...
Please understand the meaning of "class A".
I think the problem with "bad" management (regardless of whether they have MBA's) is that (by virtue of their position in the organization) they think they know more about the product than the engineers and designers, and will make their decisions in a vaccuum. "Good" management will tend to encourage participation by various individuals in an organization, regardless of his/her technical or business expertise, and make decisions based on a balanced evaluation of inputs.
A "good" designer must have skills similar to a "good" manager. He/she must set aside any pre-conceived notions on what the solution should be and carefully evaluate the technology, requirements, test and analysis data, manufacturing process, materials, costs, vendors, etc. that go into the design. It would be good if the designer had hands-on multi-disciplinary skills in all aspects of the design, however, this is usually not the case, especially for a complex system. The "good" designer must therefore develop the ability to listen with an open mind to various individuals within an organization and be capable of integrating this information and translating it into a workable design.
This brings to mind a couple of attitudes that I have seen from "bad" designers when I was doing consulting as an analysis and test engineer. "... I already know what the problem is--I just need to design the solution ..." or, "... You want to solve the problem, I'm only interested in fixing it ..." Needless to say, neither of these designers were successful.
pj
A "good" designer must have skills similar to a "good" manager. He/she must set aside any pre-conceived notions on what the solution should be and carefully evaluate the technology, requirements, test and analysis data, manufacturing process, materials, costs, vendors, etc. that go into the design. It would be good if the designer had hands-on multi-disciplinary skills in all aspects of the design, however, this is usually not the case, especially for a complex system. The "good" designer must therefore develop the ability to listen with an open mind to various individuals within an organization and be capable of integrating this information and translating it into a workable design.
This brings to mind a couple of attitudes that I have seen from "bad" designers when I was doing consulting as an analysis and test engineer. "... I already know what the problem is--I just need to design the solution ..." or, "... You want to solve the problem, I'm only interested in fixing it ..." Needless to say, neither of these designers were successful.
pj
Is just my idea, or we, technical people, tend to be cocky?
I think it has something to do with the profession… We deal with difficult stuff, and we are (if we are) successful at that. Somehow, we begin to think that we own the truth. Yes, we listen; yes we try to apply others ideas, but deep deep inside us, we have our opinion, which we think is better than the others’ opinion.
My father made, only with high school studies, a complete raw edge V-belt factory. However, I saw his sufferings at structural design (had to be made by someone else) and the endlessly trial and failure approach.
As Bismarck once said, I know people learn from mistakes, but I prefer to learn from someone else’s mistakes. That is formal education. Said that, I still have the deepest respect for someone that is able enough to make things work just with lots and lots of intelligence, and without taking advantage of other’s mistakes. Just think what he could have done with that booster!
I just read MBA. What would you think of a good designer (cockiness), who happens to get an MBA, from a good graduate school (cockiness again)? Would that make him a genius and the most wanted individual in industrial America?
sancat
I think it has something to do with the profession… We deal with difficult stuff, and we are (if we are) successful at that. Somehow, we begin to think that we own the truth. Yes, we listen; yes we try to apply others ideas, but deep deep inside us, we have our opinion, which we think is better than the others’ opinion.
My father made, only with high school studies, a complete raw edge V-belt factory. However, I saw his sufferings at structural design (had to be made by someone else) and the endlessly trial and failure approach.
As Bismarck once said, I know people learn from mistakes, but I prefer to learn from someone else’s mistakes. That is formal education. Said that, I still have the deepest respect for someone that is able enough to make things work just with lots and lots of intelligence, and without taking advantage of other’s mistakes. Just think what he could have done with that booster!
I just read MBA. What would you think of a good designer (cockiness), who happens to get an MBA, from a good graduate school (cockiness again)? Would that make him a genius and the most wanted individual in industrial America?
sancat
Smokehouse
“Ford quality is in "full" reverse???? Didn't I just see a new showcase Mustang on TV the other night??” - I meant the policy in full reverse not quality. Besides, to make a nice “box” does not mean to make a good car.
Take it easy.
An engineer dies and reports to hell. Pretty soon, the engineer becomes
dissatisfied with the level of comfort in hell, and starts designing and
building improvements. After a while, they've got air conditioning and
flush toilets and escalators, and the engineer is a pretty popular guy.
One day God calls Satan up on the telephone and says with a sneer: "So,
how's it going down there in hell?"
Satan replies: "Hey things are going great. We've got air conditioning and
flush toilets and escalators, and there's no telling what this engineer is
going to come up with next."
God replies: "What??? You've got an engineer? That's a mistake - he should
never have gotten down there; send him up here."
Satan says: "No way. I like having an engineer on the staff, and I'm
keeping him."
God says: "Send him back up here or I'll sue."
Satan laughs uproariously and answers: "Yeah, right. And just where are you
going to get a lawyer?"
Viktor
“Ford quality is in "full" reverse???? Didn't I just see a new showcase Mustang on TV the other night??” - I meant the policy in full reverse not quality. Besides, to make a nice “box” does not mean to make a good car.
Take it easy.
An engineer dies and reports to hell. Pretty soon, the engineer becomes
dissatisfied with the level of comfort in hell, and starts designing and
building improvements. After a while, they've got air conditioning and
flush toilets and escalators, and the engineer is a pretty popular guy.
One day God calls Satan up on the telephone and says with a sneer: "So,
how's it going down there in hell?"
Satan replies: "Hey things are going great. We've got air conditioning and
flush toilets and escalators, and there's no telling what this engineer is
going to come up with next."
God replies: "What??? You've got an engineer? That's a mistake - he should
never have gotten down there; send him up here."
Satan says: "No way. I like having an engineer on the staff, and I'm
keeping him."
God says: "Send him back up here or I'll sue."
Satan laughs uproariously and answers: "Yeah, right. And just where are you
going to get a lawyer?"
Viktor
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