welding procedure qualification 1

[sw008]

Guys, please offer your suggestion.

Base metal in PQR: P1-Group 1 TO P1-Group 2
Base metal in WPS: P1-Group 2 TO P1-Group 2

Welding process: SMAW

Impact test is required.

Can I use the above mentionen PQR to support this WPS, if I use ASME IX?

For my understanding, in ASME IX, PQR base metal should have the same P number and Group Number as the WPS base metal, if impact test required.

Please advice. thanks.

 

[metengr]

No. See QW-253 QW-403.5 in Article 2 of Section IX, a change in group number on the WPS requires re-qualification for impact qualification.

 

[claret]

I'm on an oil & gas project where we have stainless steels, 304H, 304L, 316, 316L, and 321.

As these are all P8 numbers, could a weld procedure qualifcation in one of these qualify the rest and satisfy ASME IX requirements?

 

[metengr]

Yes.

 

[weldtek]

Metengr,
With all due respect, I don't see why the PQR using P1 Gr 1 welded to P1 Gr 2 wouldn't support a WPS for welding P1 Gr2 to P1 Gr2. I agree that Gr # becomes an essential variable when impacts are req'd, but, in this case, he has that covered in the PQR.
I routinely qualify procedures using SA516 material which is dual certified as Grade 60 and Grade 70, taking impacts in only one HAZ. Per ASME Sec IX, Any PQR qualified in the above manner will support WPS' for Group 1 to Group 2 material.

 

[metengr]

weldtek;
Good catch, my mistake. You are correct regarding the PQR that would support both Group 1 and Group 2 materials.

 

[sw008]

weldtek,

I found the following in ASME IX QW-403.5. Is it the same as what you mentioned dual certificate?

"In addition, when base metals of two different P-Number Group Number combinations are qualified using a single test coupon, that coupon qualifies the welding of those two P-Number Group Numbers to themselves as well as to each other using the variables qualified."

Thanks.

 

[sw008]

weldtek,

If I change the PQR and WPS base metals as follow:

PQR: P1-Group 2 TO P1-Group 2
WPS: P1-Group 1 TO P1-Group 2

Can I use this PQR to support the WPS (Impact test required)?

thanks

 

[SJones]

No. See QW 403.5 first paragraph underneath item (c). If I was you, I would seek some qualified assistance rather than trying to get ASME IX interpreted for you on here.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.pdo.co.om/pdoweb/

 

[weldtek]

sw008,
In response to you earlier post. More or less. Basically by the rules in Sec IX you must impact test each group number. So, as SJones says, the example in your second post won't work because you tested Group 2 to Group 2 and now want to weld on Group 1 material. What test would represent the Group 1 material?
Under certain very specific condotions, QW403.5 does allow
a test on Group 1 to Group 1 and a test on Group 2 to Group 2 to cover Group 1 to Group 2, but, my thought is, why do that when one test will cover it.
There is more than one way to accomplish this. You can simply run a test assembly using one piece of Gr 1 welded to another piece of Gr 2 and impact test each HAZ, or, going back to my earlier post, select material that is dual certified as SA516-60 and SA516-70 and test just one HAZ. Same result, less cost.

 

[SJones]

Dual certified A516???

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.pdo.co.om/pdoweb/

 

[weldtek]

Dual certified SA516- 60/70 is quite common.

 

[GRoberts]

And one of the favorite materails of us welding types that are lazy and don't want to do any more procedure qualificaitons than required.

 

[SJones]

Might set the certification people off though.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.pdo.co.om/pdoweb/

 

[weldtek]

SJones,
??

 

[SJones]

ASME II, Part D, Appendix 7, 7-240. For the purposes of ASME IX, it would appear that one has to pick one grade or the other as they have different group numbers.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.pdo.co.om/pdoweb/

 

[weldtek]

SJones,
See Interpretation IX-92-70.

 

[weldtek]

I should have included this in my last post;
IX-92-70
Q When a procedure qualification with supplemental notch toughness requirement is conducted with one P number material having multiple certifications in different group numbers, are WPSs qualified for all combinmations of group numbers?
A Yes.
Q In the above question, does one set of HAZ impact specimens, when required, satisfy the requirements of Sec IX?
A Yes.
FYI, there are additional questions answered in this interpretation regarding testing of different P numbers which I didn't include.

 

[SJones]

Weldtek - good work in expanding the thread. However, the quoted interpretation really appears to go against the concept of grouping which, I assume for P1 materials, is based principally on specified minimum(strength) values.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.pdo.co.om/pdoweb/

 

[weldtek]

SJones,

"However, the quoted interpretation really appears to go against the concept of grouping"

On the contrary, the interpretation clearly states that a material with multiple certifications in different group numbers, ie SA516-60,65,70 which covers P1 groups 1 and 2, may be used to qualify a procedure on all combinations of those group numbers. ie SA 516-60 Gr 1 to itself and SA516-70 Gr 2 to itself, and SA516-60 Group 1 to SA516-70 Group 2.
The second question backs this up in confirming that only one HAZ has to be impact tested to qualify the above group numbers singly or in combination.