What if.. solar cells

[GregLocock]

Currently solar cells cost around $4 per peak watt. 1 peak watt of cell gives you around 7 Wh per day of electricity on a good day, or 4 Wh if it is poor weather.

There are several technologies coming up in the next five years that could see solar cells dropping to around $1 per watt. In fact even now the price is driven by high unsatisfied demand rather than production costs. My house uses 1500*24 Wh per day, so I'd need 9000 peak W of cells, which is almost viable at first sight, given that my current bill is around $800 pa.

So, how would your field be affected by cheaper solar power?

Can YOU think of a good diurnal storage technology that we haven't seen yet?



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[TheTick]

I just visited a neighbor's farm to view his wind turbine. Enough to power his fram on most days (20 head dairy--not big, he's semi-retired). The visit was part of a state-wide tour of alrenative energy.

It's amazing how much poltical resistance wind turbines are getting. Neighbors don't want to see them. "Spoils the view." What a load of bull! Farms don't exist for the sake of generating bucolic views, they are working enterprises.

 

[sms]

We're already seeing solar powered instruments for remote locations, metering stations etc. I could see a compressor station where all the instruments and auxilary power was solar...

Seems to me that with the right cell efficiency that a solar powered car would be possible.

Really, wind power is just a form of solar as well... Wind has become pretty big in west Texas (where there are few people to complain about the view being spoiled.)

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[GregLocock]

No, a solar powered car is never going to be practical, been there, done that, got the T shirt, won the world championship.

In order to get acceptable performance you have to optimise everything, including weight. This leaves you in a large expensive fragile slow single seater.

Much better to put the cells on your roof, and then charge the battery for your electric car up.


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[BillPSU]

Wind turbines are probably the most effective use of solar power devised of so far. The comments about spoiling the view and killing a few birds will be a continuing argument. The real problem with wind generation is where it will take place which is mostly in the Great Plains where the wind is constant and land is easily available and cheap. The problem is transmission of the power to the places that need it. Line losses limits transmission distances. Power hungry industries may even relocate to areas of wind power and may even build their own generation capacity selling excess power onto the grid.

 

[Ashereng]

Solar panels are already very common in my industry - usually remote sites. They are, for the most part reliable. Their weakness is the total power available per square foot vs other solutions (eg TEGs). If there is low power consumption, they work well. If you need lots, then other alternatives may work better.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[0707]

Next year Portugal is going to build the biggest Solar panel power station in the world. It will be located in Alentejo next to Spanish border.

 

[arunmrao]

Wind farms in India exist as a cluster and are located only at favourable sites for the winds to give about 20 hours generation. The power generated is fed to the grid and the owner of the wind mill is allowed to draw the power or sell it to anyone.

As far as spoiling the beauty is concerned,its a treat to watch all the wind mills running. Next time I pass the area, I shall remember to take a few pictures and post it here.

 

[0707]

"Solar cells and advanced fuel cells that can deliver up to 500 kW must be developed to power the craft. An aerodynamic design and a control system must be developed to help keep the airship steady amid the high winds at that altitude, without consuming excessive power. Another important factor is determining how the airship would react to changing temperatures as the sun rises and sets every day, heating and cooling the helium. Then there's the major challenge of finding materials for the airship's skin that are capable of withstanding the extreme ultraviolet radiation at such high altitudes for extended periods without becoming brittle."

To know more about this go to

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...t-for-high-altitude-airship-updated/index.php

 

[2dye4]

What we will need to make alt energy usefull is a
MEGA GRID
A massive HVDC power bus through linking the midwest to
the east as far as OHIO.

The purpose of this bus is twofold. First to average out
the availability of power because of weather patterns.
The wind is allways blowing somewhere right??
Also to deliver surplus to the hungry coastal areas.

Spurs off this MEGA GRID to the north and south with insure
it covers a very large geographic surface area to aid with
the weather averaging.

It will be extremely costly to build. Maybe even cost as
much as the Iraq war, but it should begin planning now.

There is no viable storage technology at present except
pumped resevoir water power that can even come close to
doing this averaging of power production for us. Hence the
need to spread out and connect the generation.

The capacity of the main trunk line would have to be
50 Giga Watts. Something like two cables 3 feet thick at
1 mega volt. It will be an engineering feat to rival any
before. But it is necessary

 

[COEngineeer]

Make them look like the wind mill in Netherland. Dont they look good?

 

[moltenmetal]

Wind "farms" are an obvious solution: the crops underneath, and the guy driving the tractor and combine harvester, neither of them need any space beyond about 20' above grade, and farmers can always use a few extra bucks by producing yet another "crop" off their land. So combining wind farms with crop farms is a sensible idea. Anybody who complains about the view being spoiled should be taken on a tour of some coal-fired electrical generating plants sometime. Big stacks and piles of coal aren't all that pretty either.

 

[Comcokid]

Currnet solar cell prices are being driven not only by the high demand, but by a shortage of the raw polysilicon which may continue to 2010 or 2011.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Comcokid,

What you say is true, although I have heard that we could start to see significant increases is silicon production by the end of '08.

But this only affects the single and poly crystal silicon solar cells, not thin film cells. In fact, the high price of silicon is really driving investment in thin film PV at the moment. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether that investment stays after silicon prices come down. But CIGS, in particular, have been getting a ton of investment in the last year. Look at Nanosolar in Palo Alto, they just built a 100 million dollar factory to produce CIGS cells.

 

[Comcokid]

BrunoPuntzJones - I posted the reply just after reading a article in EE Times, Oct 30, 2006 p12, "PolySi shortage could impact wafer costs".

The article states: "The tight polysilicon market could last two years longer than previously expected, possibly continuing to 2010 or 2011".

The article is available at

http://www.eetimes.com,

but you have to setup a login ID to view it.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Solar Power Made Affordable;

http://www.investorsinsight.com/wwnk_va.aspx?EditionID=413

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Comcokid,

Thanks for the update. Any mention of the reason for the additional delay?

Anyways, that's good news for thin film PV.

 

[Comcokid]

BrunoPuntzJones - The article indicates:

A) IC grade wafers supplies are sufficient, but solar grade polysilicon has been in short supply for two years already, and demand is skyrocketing.

B) Projections had been that shortages would end in 2009 when polysilicon vendors such as Hemlock, MEMC, Mitsubishi Materilas, REC and Wacker added additional capacity, but the increasing demand is outstripping original projections.

C) Solar cell and module makers are having trouble keeping up with US demand.

OEMs are working at better power efficiencies while reducing panel costs. Some companies are developing thin-film arrays which use less polysilicon but are less efficient.

The article mentions Solarbuzz LLC, which I found at the website:

http://www.solarbuzz.com

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Solarbuzz is sort of an industry portal / marketing frim or something like that.

It's true that the current thin film cells aren't as efficient as the older silicon technologies but they also have a lot of advantages, one being material costs. And there are a lot of good ideas in the works for higher efficiency thin film cells. So I don't see the efficiency of silicon cells defeating thin film cells.

It will come down to production costs, and, frankly, the industry has been doing an abysmal job when it comes to the production side of things. I have seen some signs of change, but I'm not convinced yet.

 

[SomptingGuy]

If it comes down to $/Watt, efficiency (i.e. area) isn't an issue when there is so much desert area on this World. Take a look at Lomborg's view on solar power. (I don't claim to agree with his conclusions, but the maths look interesting)