What to do... 4

[MaryCW]

I've been at my current job 6 months.
I started at lower pay (over $10k lower) than my last job but was promised a $3k raise after 6 months, which was last week. I'm in a high unemployment area and was basically desperate for work.

I have 7 yrs experience in my field - I have no trouble doing the work. Just before Christmas, the company was sold by the owners and bought by a mega-conglomerate in the business. Several of us think that they bought us for "parts" and that they'll likely close us down within the next 6 months or so, so job security is not something I have right now.

I was hired because I can get my P.E. anytime - but I've typically worked in manufacturing so it's never been a big rush for me to get it. This boss seemed pretty excited when he learned I could get it quickly and said that would be something to think about "in the future".

Since the buyout, I've decided it's in my best interest to get the PE so I printed off the paperwork and signed up for the April exam. My boss found the paperwork on the printer, which I did purposely, so I know he knows I'm taking the exam.

I had a 6 mo. review last week. My offer letter promised me the $3k raise "after 6 months, provided I made suitable progress in the position". I've learned it all very quickly and with less than 4 days of overlap with the last person, I feel as though I've covered his leaving very well. Almost too well - things haven't slowed down here over the winter as they usually would so I've been working my tail off to keep up.

I work with several people who are called "application engineers" even though they don't have an engineering degree. Two have been promoted into the department in the last six months; one from estimating (he was formerly a glass installer) and one from order entry. The glass installer is now our "Large Projects Coordinator". He asks me how to do every facet of his job on a daily basis. The other guy hasn't learned anything in the 2 months he's been in this department, and 2 weeks ago my boss asked me why I hadn't trained him yet in what I do, so he could help with the overflow. I didn't realize I was supposed to train him. I have a MSCE and this company has pretty much everyone doing the structural calcs as "overflow".

Anyway, long story, but I had my review and it didn't go well. I scored a 70.5 on his scale and 71 was the lowest number for "meets expecatations", so he considers me high on the "occasionally does not meet expectations" list.

All of my technical scores were 3's and 4's (out of 5) but he rated me a "2" on several personality-based rankings. He mentioned in his comments that I "occasionally become short with co-workers, especially when the workload seems heavy". I said, since starting, there has not been a moment when my in-box has been empty and though I occasionally struggle to keep up, I felt I'd been doing a good job. His answer was that I should be mentoring my coworkers (a couple of them have been here 2+ years, other than the 2 new people I mentioned) and when I answered "I didn't realized I was supposed to be mentoring people who'd been here longer than me" he brought up the fact that I signed up for the PE test and asked if I was leaving the company.

I said I had no plans to leave, but with new ownership I felt it was in my best interest to make myself as marketable as possible.

Now, this morning, I found out that he printed out the contents of my email inbox at 7:08 a.m., I arrive at 8. I feel like he's singling me out, possibly trying to get rid of me. I am the only person in the company with my Master's degree, and I'm now at the top of my payscale for the position I'm in.

Any suggestions how to handle this situation?

 

[ajack1]

Just to look at things from the other side, why would a company want to lose someone who can easily handle a high workload with relative ease, especially as you say that even if they gave you the promised raise you would still be working for below the “market rate”?

I know I would fight tooth and nail to keep an employee like that.

 

[jmw]

ajack1,

....why would a company want to lose someone who can easily handle a high workload with relative ease

A good question but there speaks an engineer: rational and logical.

Management are not rational or logical animals. Remember the scorpion and the frog story.
They are often spiteful petty minded vindictive a****les and they could care less if what they do damages the company They can always get another and often better paid job when necessary They lead charmed lives.

To be fair, I suspect they are probably more rare in decision sensitive companies (I'm sorry to say I seem to have worked mostly in decision insensitive companies so I rely on you guys to say how universal it really is).

A reasonable test is to look around and see just how many of your fellow employees you would sack if you were boss:
the slackers, brown-nosers, backstabbers, incompetents, timeservers, luddites etc.

What you may notice is they form a high proportion of the employees and they are employed not because the company is a charitable institution but because none of these is a threat to the manager.
Watch who stays and who goes when they have a "rationalisation", "restructuring" or "downsizing".
See who is expendable and it will be those who are threat to the manager; the smart hard working ones who are an asset to the company. Actually they are not only a threat to the managers but they are also resented by fellow employees because they show up the other "workers" and can threaten the status quo.

One exception I witnessed was an employee so bad he transitioned from not being a threat to his boss into being a positive liability and when redundancies came round his manager was determined he should stay, be denied any chance at redundancy pay just so the manager could steadily work his way through the disciplinary procedures and sack him without a penny.

Exceptions are family owned decision sensitive companies who often act as if they are decision insensitive. The owners family have all the senior positions (at above market rate) and no idea what they are doing. These are often quite feudal organisations.

But if you change jobs often enough you will hopefully get lucky and find your niche in some company where you will be appreciated. Or, you may have to start your own company some day (and then give all the best jobs to your family... but don't worry, about the time it all goes pear shaped you simply sell the company to a bigger company).


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ajack1]

jmw as well as being an engineer I am also a boss, as I own a small company. I do however realise that small companies do not have the same internal politics as larger ones.

The reason the slackers, brown-nosers, backstabbers, incompetents, timeservers, luddites etc are there is it is unbelievably difficult to find good quality hard working staff, hence my comment that I would fight tooth and nail to keep them. For every pointy haired boss there are many Wallys.

Trust me when I say we are not all spawn of the devil and laying off good people is the worst part of owning a company, fortunately I have only had to do it once. I guess the way I balance it and sleep at night is when good people leave me to join a larger organisation that offers better pay and career structure, there is little I can do about it, business is business and to keep that person would jeopardise the whole company, however that does not make it any easier.

Family members is an interesting observation, yes it does happen. However do we not all strive to do the best for our families? I am sure most people on here put there children through the best education they can afford, even if deep in their hearts they know others would work harder and make more of this opportunity, is this not the same thing?

Maybe larger companies are very different, but good engineers are hard to come by and I still struggle to see why a company would let them go for no good reason.

 

[jmw]

Please don't take general observations as being the rule.
Of some of us aren't like that but the point is that just as you find it hard to find a complement of suitable employees and have to take the dross as well, so to do we find management comprised of the lower life forms.

I would guess Ajack1 that even though you recognise the need to employ a range of substandard employees that if you are yourself a good boss that you manage them for what they are and get the best you can pout them and that you will do all you can to make sure the few roses in your garden of weeds are contented.

You must allow, however, that this is not the reality for many companies. It is only to evident that not only are some of the lesser employees not managed to obtain the best from them that is possible but that they are indulged by poor managers while good honest workers are treated abysmally. It is simply a fact of life.

So too is the problem with small companies where family members can be a nightmare. Obviously also there are all types represented and i would be the first to want to find jobs for my family first and others second. In some companies and with some people this is a laudable intention and has good results. But we all know that in many cases the reality is far from ideal.

Thee is an old expression, a truism if you will, "Clogs to clogs in three generations." It simply means that the founder creates a healthy business and passes it over to the next generation who ruin it and by the third generation they are back to nothing again. Of course there are exceptions but they are the exceptions.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[DRC1]

We have worked for several mega firms recently. Many of them are in trouble. They have bought up smaller cash positve firms, and after a short period begin sucking off the cash. These firms are expected to do more and more with less and less. You have to read the finacials very carefully, because many have the investment community believing they are turning around as this cash is pulled off. Meanwhile the operations become increasingly more difficult. Bottom line your manager has been told he can't afford the raise, and your future is probably not to rosey. Sorry. My big tip off was that they were bring guys in from the field on short notice to run operations and do design calcs.
On the flip side there is a lot of work in other places, why not a change of scenery?
Good luck.

 

[RossABQ]

There are signs up all over Albuquerque looking for structural designers and engineers, in all flavors of the field (roads, steel, etc). I personally know of three outfits dying for people. Hit the road, you won't regret it!

 

[MaryCW]

I didn't think this would generate this much discussion.

Unfortunately, I own a small business in this town (not engineering related) so I can't leave the area. I can't afford to not work full time yet. I live in Michigan, though, and we seriously are in the economic pits. There used to be a page of engineering jobs in the Sunday paper - now there are 3 or 4 jobs listed total.

This is the second place I've worked since graduating where the slackers seriously outnumber the workers. I think JMW is on the right track - my boss has a bachelor's of forestry, yet he's the engineering manager, and I think he's threatened by me. I'm the only person in my department that doesn't require being told every step of the way how to do their job. The person doing this job before me had no degree but 30 years of experience in the industry, and I know they didn't pay him as much as I'm making. They advertised my position in a much higher range than what I got, and when he asked what pay I'd require during my 2nd interview, and I mentioned what the advertised range was ($60-80k) his only comment was that he couldn't afford to pay me more than $50k. They bought the department a new plotter though, the week after I started, for about $10k. I figure he justified that plotter by dropping my salary by the same amount.

Now they are doing the same thing again - trying to hire a product development engineer by advertising the position at a high rate of pay. My guess is they won't offer the person nearly that much so I'll be curious to see if one of their two choices actually accepts the offer, or not. Unfortunately, it was either take this job or likely face foreclosure, so I went with the lesser of two evils. It's easy to say I should have negotiated for more but I really wansn't in a position to at the time.

About a month before the new company bought us, HR sent out a "census" form, asking for:
1. Name

2. Marital Status

3. Number of Dependent Children

4. Level of Completed formal education. If other, please identify

That was our first clue that something was going on. Most of that should be information they already have on us, based on our resume and what type of insurance we enrolled in (single, family, etc.) I think they had to provide that to the new owners, so I'm just hoping that my schooling keeps me here until I'm able to leave. It's a miserable way to spend your day, but any paycheck is better than none.

I'd like to try to hang on until March, when the transition takes place, because I think I'd be on firmer footings financially to be able to leave. Jan & Feb are really slow months at my other business. I don't want to give an ultimatum - more pay or I walk - because I think it would be a temporary solution for me - they'd view me as a liability and work to replace me. A year ago they "evaluated" payscales in the area and decided the estimators were making too much so they changed them over to hourly and ajusted their pay downward accordingly. They also took away vacation time this year. Because of the cruddy economy, they know they have us, or at least that they can replace us pretty easily. The turnover in other departments has been high - I'd say a good 1/3 of our customer service quit and was replaced last year.

I really think this new company bought us for our machinery, so in 6 months I may not have to worry about what to do - they could answer the question for me by shutting us down. Guess I should be thankful to be working, right?

I'm trying to get some additional part-time CAD work coming in so that I'm not dependent on this salary. I'd love to be able to say I want $60k a year or I'm gone, but I just can't yet.

 

[IRstuff]

Don't forget that CAD work doesn't necessarily require you to be where the customer is. With telecons and webmeetings, you could service any customer with decent internet and FedEx support.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[GTstartup]

On a side note, I would like to say that it's an absolute disgrace that a degreed engineer with 7 years experience can be paid $50k but that's a subject for another thread.

 

[MaryCW]

Oh, thanks...now I feel even better about myself...

 

[Gymmeh]

I would love to give you advice, but for the last 3 months I have been trying to escape my company... unsuccessfully.

Best of luck

 

[MadMango]

You do not have to threaten to walk, never threaten. Find another employer that is willing to give you what you want (more pay, better stability, closer to home, whatever metric works for you). If they need you they will try to keep you.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[TXiceman]

Generally if the only way you can get more money and appreciation for a job is to find another job to get them to counter offer....you do not want to stay at that company.

If they appreciate and value your input, they will recognize you. A lot of this corporate appreciation has gone the way of the dodo bird. The companies are driven by accountants and lawyers looking only at the short term bottom line.

Ken



Ken
KE5DFR

 

[msquared48]

MaryCW:

With the bad economy, it sounds like this is a no brainer and you really have no choice but to move out of the area in spite of your small business if you want a better Engineering position.

Is this business one that you could restart in a new location, or special for the area?

Or is it your plan to eventually depend on this small business for all your income and abandon Engineering?

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[Gymmeh]

Aren't those questions illegal to be asked by and employer? (Unless you are getting a family insurance plan, which is your choice and not theirs)

2. Marital Status

3. Number of Dependent Children

I think they would fall under discrimination?

Questions 1 and 4 are related to work.

 

[MaryCW]

I know they can't ask them during an interview, I'm not sure about once you are hired. I answered the one about my degrees and left the others blank.

Back in December they announced they'd be doing random drug testing now (as if I could afford drugs, even if I wanted them!) and that they have the right to search you, your desk, your purse, any personal belongings you bring in, as well as your car. I would love to know if THAT is legal...

I really don't intend to stay here much longer. I am not a valuable employee to them or they would pay me at least the average wage for engineers (I'm in the 5th percentile, according to salary.com.)

Even if they offered to increase my salary now, knowing what kind of review my manager gave me and the fact that he feels I'm not doing an adequate job, I can't stay - he would just start searching for someone to replace me.

 

[Gymmeh]

Unless your working under some security clearnace... thats a little silly.

I thought the US was fighting a war against dictatorships...

 

[Gymmeh]

I would not trust salary.com, I am in a really low region for salary.com but the area I work is going down hill, so the laws of supply and demand kick in...

I have found that I have one of the higher starting pays of my friends in mechanical engineering it the area, and after getting another job offer and they would not match my current pay, I realized I needed to move.

 

[HgTX]

Mary, did you previously have the handle "michfan"?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[KENAT]

Well, do all you can to prepare yourself for the almost inevitable, update your resume, try to cut down your spending etc.

You could ask you boss for more detail on your job duties and maybe set goals with him for your next review or whatever, to make it seem like you give a $#$% but it sounds like anything you do will be cosmetic.

Best of luck.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...