What valve seat material for Titanium Valves. 3

[ZoRG]

Hi

The maker of the valves suggests using a bronze based seat, what are the best bronze based material to use?
What about copper based materials for valve seats?

Thanks.

 

[TVP]

Bronze is a copper-based alloy. Beryllium bronze is used for high performance engines that typically employ Ti valves. Go to the Copper Development Association site for more information on specific alloys, properties, etc.:

http://www.copper.org

 

[ZoRG]

Thanks will check it out.

 

[ZoRG]

I have found a little more, however copper.org does not seem to have the info I am looking at, I will look further...

What I am looking for is; do they use a special grade of nickel/bronze for valve seats?

 

[Majik]

The make of the valve either delwest or manley probably says for you to use a copper/bronze based seat. That is just because the matierial is softer and won't wear the titanium as fast. I know many people who have used a "soft" standard seat and have had much sucess with it. Instead of the valve wearing out the seat the seat will wear out the valve. Been running ti valves on soft stock seat for over a year now on my bmw engine..

 

[ZoRG]

Thanks!!

 

[TVP]

ZoRG,

As I mentioned in my email, beryllium-copper alloys are used for high performance engines. One such example was the FO110J 3.0L V10 produced by Ilmor/Mercedes for the 2000 F1 World Championship. Some aspects of this engine, including confirmation that beryllium-copper was used for the valve seat and valve guides, were described in SAE Technical Paper 2002-01-3359. You may want to perform a keyword search for SAE Technical Papers to see if you can find more information on specific alloys, valve seat suppliers, etc.

 

[ZoRG]

I know about beryllium copper, but its simply to expensive for my project, I have found another metal that could be suitable, called Trojan, has better heat conduction than beryllium copper, so overall seems to be a better and cheaper alternative.

Also I can get ready made Ampco 45(Bronze/Aluminium) seats, are they suitable for titanium?

Here is the info for Trojan:

http://www.columbiametals.co.uk/trojanproperties.htm

 

[TVP]

If beryllium-copper is too expensive, then I would investigate one of the high alloy bronzes like Ampco 45 or the Trojan alloy. Reasonable high temperature strength, good thermal conductivity, and low wear against Ti are the obvious goals. Good luck.

 

[ZoRG]

Thanks ... I will check into Trojan.

 

[ZoRG]

I am ordering some Trojan today, we will see how well it works!

 

[bazeleur]

Forgive me for going slightly off topic here, but would bronze valve seats be compatible with EV-8/21-4N Steel valves? If so what particular alloy of bronze would be best?

 

[ZoRG]

Get ampco 45.

 

[WilliamH]

Does anyone know of a domestic (United States) source for the TROJAN alloy? We have a project that we would like to use the alloy for experimentally. The health concerns with copper/beryllium have made the company wary of that material.

Thanks in advance.

WH

 

[TVP]

Try Brush Wellman:

http://www.brushwellman.com/

 

[ZoRG]

They (Columbia metals) will ship it to you via ups, it took me about a week to get it.

Its tricky to drill though.

 

[WilliamH]

ZoRG,

I contacted Colimbia Metals directly and am in the process of placing an order to machine some test parts. Thanks.

I am curious as to just what you mean by, "It's tricky to drill though."

WH

 

[ZoRG]

If you can gundrill do that, I bought some material for valve guides it took 2 drills to bore 32 guides, next time Ill rather buy a gundrill, btw here are the guides:

For the seats, I first tried to do the drilling on a manual machine, and then just bore out with a boring bar on the cnc, however after a short while, the manual drill was blunt as well, so I got out our gundrill, and did the whole operation in the cnc, the gundrill worked really well here, I have not yet taken pics of these.

 

[WilliamH]

ZoRG,

Thanks for the reply. We have some sample material coming from Columbia Metals. We are going to do seats and guides also.

Your parts look nice.

WH

 

[ZoRG]

Thanks, good luck.