Which way to go next? 1

[Lynsey]

I am currently working within the steel profession in the UK and am going to finish a HNC in civil engineering in May of next year. I would like to go on and go into structural design, what I don't know is which way to go next and what an employer would find the best way of education. Do I go on to do a degree in structural engineering or a HND and then a degree? I have also seen Engineering exams one and two which say that they are the the same as a degree. Whichever way I went do I then need to do professional exams and obtain chartered status? Please can you help?

Thanks

Lynsey.

 

[Qshake]

For the benefit of those in the United States please explain what a HNC and HND are.

IMHO, a graduate degree is fast becoming the standard for employment in the structural engineering field. However, this is not a written rule as of yet. Experience in the construction industry, especially structures, is also valuable.

I am not aware of any exam that has replaced the traditional acredited engineering education.

 

[austim]

Hi, Lynsey,

It is a very long time since I last worked in the UK (Xmas 1963, to be precise). Things may well have changed a bit since then -)), so I won't attempt a clear black/white reponse to your query. In fact, I don't think that any of us could give you firm advice without knowing much more about what makes you tick as an individual. Rather, here are some general comments, from my own viewpoint (67 year old, 43 plus years in heavy structural design, bridges, wharves, industrial plants, temporary work, etc).

When I first started, as a graduate engineer working in one of the best known bridge engineering consultancies in Westminster, I worked alongside other engineers with the usual mix of qualifications. Among the under-30-olds in our smallish office we had two PhDs, six to eight BScs (or equivalent), about the same number with HNC (Higher National Certificate), and a few who were working through the Higher National system via evening classes and day release. I was unaware of any demarcation between graduate and HNC engineers in the way of type of work undertaken. I do not believe that there was any significant salary difference between graduates and HNC. In fact the HNC may well have been worth more to the employers at the outset of our careers, with a perception that their training was more directly relevant to everyday design work. Certainly, the average HNC engineer produced better drawings than the average graduate (MUCH better than mine), and that would have been important when we all prepared our own design drawings.

There would seem to be a number of primary questions that you need to address.

What are the financial consequences of your decision? (I recall another thread [194-7729, Civil/Environmental] in which a Canadian website friend referred to an incurred debt of $70,000-00 or so).

Which type of course are you personally suited to? Are you excited by developing your own methods of solution to problems, or are you only interested in getting the answer by "following a recipe". (I don't wish to denigrate any of my past HNC colleagues, but I have an impression that while they were taught specific design procedures, the graduates ended up with a better understanding of basic principles).

In other words, do you consider that are academically inclined, or are you more practical in outlook? (That may bring a flood of protests - yes, I know those characteristics are not mutually exclusive, but I am trying to mark out some basic paths here).

Turn the calendar forward by twenty years or so - you are now 40 plus - do you still get any satisfaction from solving algebraic equations; how well do you now handle the occasional simple differential equation when needed; does your technical library contain as many basic academic references as technical handbooks and manufacturer's data sheets; do you enjoy producing spreadsheets or other computer programs for one-off problems? If you believe that the answer to most of those questions is yes, then go straight for the degree.

I don't know what is involved in the HND (Perhaps that has been invented since my time?)

I always thought that qualifying via the HNC was a very difficult thing to do, when most did it on a part-time (day release and evening work) basis, rather than just working away at the unviversity for long enough to graduate.

In my day (we oldies are allowed to say that), my engineering degree course included a large amount of stuff that was destined to be forgotten immediately after I left University. As a structural engineer, I have never found the need to worry about the detailed electronic behaviour of gas-filled triodes, for example. (On the other hand, when I had to contemplate what happened when a pile was struck by a diesel hammer, my rudimentary recollection of the relevant thermodynamics, adiabatic compression etc {pV^Gamma=constant], did come in handy in estimating the velocity at which the ram strikes the anvil). So how will you cope with subjects that appear to be irrelevant to your future career?

I would suggest that you discuss the question of 'marketability' with as many contacts as you can, particularly those in a position of hiring technical staff.

Do remember that all degrees are not equal. As the head of an Australian contractor's engineering division in the early 1980s, I was quite horrified at the fundamental ignorance of basic requirements of equilibrium displayed by a 'graduate' from a 'university' in Northern England (I only recall it as a technical college, location unspecified to protect the innocent). The young man concerned (I cannot bring myself to think of him as an engineer) told me that the particular institution was very popular with his contemporaries in Malaysia (presumably because of its lax academic standards, and willingness to send out graduates not worthy of the title ?). I would prefer a well experienced HNC engineer to a dubiously-qualified graduate from a pseudo-university every time.

 

[Lynsey]

Thanks for your replies, for the benefit of Qshake a HNC & HND are courses that give you a background into Civil Engineering or building etc. These are at a level lower than that of a degree with the HND being (I think) equal to the first year of a degree. These are courses as austim says that are generally used as part time courses to give employees a background into civil engineering. At the moment I'm working in a detailing office, detailing structural steelwork and metalwork and I'm very happy in this job, but before I can regret not doing it I would like to take my education as far as possible. I do not want to go to University full time as I get bored with student life and with the lack of money. So I would have to go down the long route, I would also like to gain further experience in different sectors of construction and possibly around the world. I have a thirst for both pratical and solving equations etc, greedy eh? I think probably the degree is the best route really?

Lynsey