Who is to blame for US outsourcing 39

[EngineerDave]

I bring this up not to start a political war. I am an independent by the way but find myself leaning more towards the conservative side as many engineers do.

Democrats are starting to blame Republicans for loss of jobs due to outsourcing.

The way I see it both Democrats and Republicans are responsible for not securing good trade agreements. It seemed both supported NAFTA heavily in 1992. That is but one small treaty governing trade for North America.

What is the solution. I honestly don't believe any politician will have a solution for such an economics driven problem.

 

[GregLocock]

"Thinking long term is not in Wall Street's equation " How's Toyota's stock price these days? Compared with say DCX?

Now tell me about long term planning again.



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[BillPSU]

Greg
I know there are exceptions to anything which is given as a statement but why is Catepillar, Boeing, John Deere, and many other companies now buying most parts instead of making them? Hyundai on the other hand builds 15% of all commercial ships in one facility and subcontracts nothing?

I stand by my first statement.

Bill

 

[GregLocock]

Well, let's see.

Toyota invest in the long term. Their stock price goes up. Their market share goes up. Their profits go up (generally).

A N Other car company (pick one of 3) lives from quarter to quarter. Their stock price has flatlined (at best) in the last five years. Their market share has flatlined. Their profits have stagnated.

It isn't the engineers, accountants, buyers, and assembly workers who force the board to concentrate on short term performance. I don't think it is the shareholders either, since I'm sure that Toyota and A N Other share many shareholders.

Or to pick another example. Which of the two major civilian manufacturers actually looks like a confident company with a plan? Airbus. Who'd have believed that ten years ago?

Which kind of leads me to think that maybe the problem is with the guys with bald heads, fat bellies, nice offices, neat suits and lots of options. Rather than do the hard work of reinventing their company as learning organisations*, they just outsource as a short term prop to the share price and hope the options are worth something before they retire.


*OK I know it's a cliche.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[DrillerNic]

Greg- who are the shareholders in Toyota and A N Other car company? I expect that most of the shares in A N Other are held by large mutual funds- pension funds, unit trusts etc, who are notorious for only wanting good dividends (you can't blame them, they have their own obligations to their pensioners and savers to service). Many Japanese companies on the other hand are owend in a complex pattern of cross ownership, which partially insulates them from the requirement to post high returns quarter to quarter.

There are several writers trying to alter the focus of Anlgo-Saxon capitalism away from 'maximising shareholder value' to wards 'maximising stakeholder value', where a stakeholder is defined as someone with a interest in the company- workers, suppliers etc as well as shareholders. The Industrial Society (now the Work Foundation) in the UK is one of these groups;

http://www.theworkfoundation.com;

people may disagreeee with what they say, but I'm sure it will be interesting and thought provoking!

 

[GregLocock]

I was talking about USAn shareholders. I was using the Wall St share price for Toyota.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[makeup]

Every night here in the UK we get between 4-5 calls from the far east trying to sell stuff. I think people will get so p****ed of with this that they will end up buying nothing and that may bring about a rethink.