Why learn to design aircraft ? 4

[Ady2010]

Hello all

My question is,

Why do universities invest so much time in teaching aerospace students how to design aircraft from scratch when it is extremely unlikely that they will ever land such a role in industry ?

Myself, I have studied aircraft conceptual design at both masters degree level and PhD level and I can reassure anybody out there that even with these qualifications, it is very highly unlikely that they would be working in such a role in industry. Instead of spending the last 6 years learning how to design aircraft, I am starting to think that my time would have been better spent chasing 'big foot'. I am desperate to land a role in a conceptual design department and to put into practice what I have learnt but am now worried that I am going to have to retrain in order to find work.

So, why do some universities still base their courses around aircraft conceptual design when there is no jobs in this area ?. Why not base the courses around component design and then only teach conceptual design as a specalised course within companies ?.

Thanks

 

[KENAT]

Well, the few years immediately pre WWII wasn't too bad for aircraft designers (not necessarily the companies that relied on profits from actually building the A/C).

At least in the UK.

Several requirements issues by govt each year. Bunch of proposals submitted for each one. Several prototypes ordered for many of them...

This of course pails compared to the amount of designs during WW I.

Arguably, the current state of UAV is closer to the situation in WW I. So, probably fertile territory.

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[Ady2010]

Hi guys. Some interesting thoughts for me to consider.

I have had another thought. I am also considering the prospect of working in aicraft maintenance as I know that there is a shortage of licensed engineers. Before doing my degrees I worked as a car body repairer for a number of years so have got a fiar bit of hands-on experience.

I am just wondering if any of my degees or my practical background is transferable or if I would have to start from the bottom again.

Thanks

 

[rb1957]

that'd pretty much cover the entire spectrum of the industry ... from conceptual design to in-service maintenance.

sorry but i doubt your PhD will help in getting a miantenance license. and i think it might scare off potential employers ... "over-qualified"

 

[KirbyWan]

I think the reason to teach aircraft design is because it's the fun side of engineering. You'll get a lot more students interested in aircraft design then in lug analysis and fastener selection engineering. Who cares if only one tenth of one percent (.1%) become aircraft designers. Aircraft design as a field gives the collage a venue to present all the teaching opportunities needed to provide the background to becomeing an engineer. Actually being an engineer will take much more training after you get a job, and it will take a lot of that before someone is going to be doing aircraft design professionally. I was thinking of doing some amature aircraft design myself, just because it's fun.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

 

[KENAT]

Ady, a lot of the folks on this site, based on their posts, seem to spend much of their time developing/analyzing etc. modifications/repairs to aircraft.

So maybe that's something of interest of you. Typically for an A/C repair, any changes from baseline design have to have some level of analysis and certification - much more so than in typical automotive applications.

This type of work would make more use of your education than being a grease monkey.

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[Sparweb]

I can amplify the comment from Kenat, I work on aircraft mods, and I do get to do design work. It focuses me on specific components; wing tips, fuselage cut-outs, racks in the cabin, etc. The experience designing parts that modify the wing is instructive about the design of the wing itself. Then at other times, the effect of a mod on the aircraft as a whole must be checked - gross weight limitations, airspeed limitations, reductions in rate of climb, new emergency procedures, and so on. These often involve getting a free ride in the co-pilot seat. I've been in autorotative descents and attempted inductions of ground resonance in helicopters, and in fixed-wing aircraft power-on stalls and spiral dives (that last wasn't intentional, hehehe).

Perhaps a look at the things on my desk right at the moment is the most instructive. A cracked skin doubler, a fiberglass wing rib, a cheapo LCD monitor mount, a coupon of carbon fiber, a stack of webbing D-rings, and the datasheet for an exploding bolt. Each of these things contains either a problem to be solved or a solution to an aeronautical problem. And I haven't disclosed the things that would reveal too much about current customers, either.

During my education, I was given several aerodynamics and systems courses. Not enough to design the details, but a very good background so that I know where to start on a problem. You just can't beat it when you enjoyed your schooling, then get a job that puts it all to use.

Now that you have a PhD, you can say you have studied a very pointy topic in great detail. Now that you are considering the labour market, you should think about the things you know how to do more generally. Subjects of study and projects beyond the PhD thesis that round you out.

You find work like this by getting in with the engineers who consult for operators of small airlines, survey ships, overhaul shops, and government work (such as fire-fighting and mapping). The operators of the aircrarft don't want to hire university engineers themselves (unless you're handy with a solder iron) but they do need aeronautical engineers that can keep the regulators happy from time to time. That's when they need the consultants.

My (indirect) knowledge about UAV's is that the designers involved have less experience with human-carrying aircraft and more with model aircraft. Leads to the kinds of mistakes that typically come up with people learning "all over again" what's been known for a century. The more successful UAV manufacturers probably avoided this problem but there are some cottage industry UAV companies around here that are in the "hobby" boat. Choose carefully.

Good luck!

Steven Fahey, CET

 

[rb1957]

i'd've thought that you'd've needed a license to be an AME, i guess you could work of a company as a mechanic, and not sign anything off ... sounds like too much hassle for the company.

since we're considering short-term work, till you get a "real job" ... what about working at a uni, as a TA or something, so long as you don't have to commit yourself for a long term ??

 

[thruthefence]

"I am also considering the prospect of working in aircraft maintenance as I know that there is a shortage of licensed engineers"

Keep in mind there is NOT a shortage of third world repair stations, and that's where much of the real work goes these days.

Frankly, (and this is someone who has been in the aircraft maintenance for 35 years)IMHO the Aviation Maintenance trade is a dying one. There will always be a need for certificated workers on the small aircraft, but the good paying jobs have been shipped to China.

 

[sigmatau]

One thing in your job hunt, is don't send your resume to HR. Find out who the manager is in the area you want to work, and send it to him and/or his boss.

Much better response rate.

Jim Brown, DER Structures

http://www.faader.us

 

[Ady2010]

Thanks for the tip, much appreciated.

To be honest with you, I live very close to Rolls Royce in Derby but I will not apply to them anymore as I have had bad experiences with their HR department not reading the application forms properly.

 

[KENAT]

I doubt they are worse than BAE Systems HR.

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[Ady2010]

My experience of BAE Systems is that they are all over you and are promising you jobs when they want you to do some work for them. After you have finished, they act like they have never heard of you and certainly don't recall ever offering you a job. I do know of some decent guys there though who are always happy to exchange a e-mail.

 

[gerritgroot]

You could ask this question about any university in any discipline.

Giving you an overview of what an airplane needs is, at least in my opinion, the right thing to do.

I don't agree with MikeHalloran that you should start at the bottom. Yes, when you start working you start at the bottom, but not with your design.

You have to know why you need certain parts before you make them, the design should be (again in my opinion) top down, never bottom up. Bottom up designing creates a monster of Frankenstein.

apart form thatm although I'm working in a commercial company myself, not everyone comes to the university to end in a commercial job. Some people prefer to work at research institutes and it's not upto the university to choose for you, they are only there to teach you and even if you don't want to do research, you'll always need the overview to know why you are working on a certain detail and with what goal in mind.

 

[KENAT]

Either extreme of top down or bottom up has issues.

You need enough top down so you know where you're heading.

However, at the end of the day aircraft (or most end items for that matter) are a bunch of sub systems and sub assemblies which forces some bottom up work.

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[kontiki99]

A lot of people have designed airplanes. Look at General Aviation and the EAA. Ho about Burt Rutan, Bill Lear, Molt Taylor, Jim Bede, all the racing aircraft and homebuilt designers. If you have good ideas vision and drive you can make things happen.

You don't have to be another brick in the wall.