Why not a 4 Cyl diesel in a light truck

[patdaly]

Other than the obligatory "people had a bad experience with GM", is there a technical reason we do not have a single manufacturer that builds a typical 1/2 ton pickup with a decent diesel? If they can get them to pass automotive emissions ( Volkswagen, Mercedes, and now Jeep ), why not a decent 1/2 ton PU? I know GM's association with Isuzu would let them use the beautiful little diesel they make, and Dodge's contracts with Cummins would make the ISB 3.9/3.3 a natural. It would appear to me as if both of these tough as nails diesels would offer at least 35 MPG, with more than acceptable performance. Couple that with 300,000 mile plus durability and I would think fleets, contractors, etc. would buy them in great numbers.

Comments?

 

[GregLocock]

Gosh, this is terrible news for the 80%+ engines on the planet that are 4 cylinders or less.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[patdaly]

I guess a couple of questions remain:

They say it wont sell, but if it is not available, how do I buy one? I wonder how many Cummins Dodges were sold before 1989?

If the secondary imbalance is so bad, how do 4BT's run several hundred thousand miles before being rebuilt? Certainly my ancient 4BT is never going to be mistaken for a V-16, but for a truck, it is certainly acceptable.

Oh, and yea, I wouldnt be against a small 3 Cylinder diesel, it would just mean better mileage.

 

[rmw]

Do I remember hearing about diesel aficionados back in the '70's and 80's before diesels became common in PU's retrofitting Detroit Diesel 3-71's into PU's?

Or am I dreaming?

rmw

 

[evelrod]

Yes, Chevy put diesels in pickups in the early 60's that I know of from personal use...all the AB trucks that were allowed to enter the Cheyenne Mountain complex of the NORAD COC in Colorado Springs were converted diesels with 'scrubbers' for the exhaust in the bed. Pretty gutless at that altitude and, pretty gutless at sea level as I ran into one of them still being used by American Bridge on a jobsite in Los Angeles back in the very early 70's. I am convinced that they would never have been built without the governments usual 'pork' as they were, by universal opinion at the time, totally useless for their intended job and waaaaaaay overpriced.

Rod

 

[ivymike]

people also cram CAT 3100's into pickup trucks...

 

[KiwiME]

Here in New Zealand I recently bought a 2004 Suzuki Grand Vitara which has a 2.0 L 4-cyl Peugeot common-rail diesel engine. So far I get 29 mpg (US) city and 34 mpg hwy, but it will do better once I get a few miles on it.

You just have to move away from the US to have access to this sort of thing

 

[patdaly]

rmw, yes, and they still are. Right now there is a burgeoning industry in converting all sorts of vehicles, typically with the 6bt Cummins. They are typically also 3/4 or 1 ton Chevy or Fords. The rub is, to remain EPA legal, you have to keep it in the 8600 and up GVW range, and use EPA certified engines. This limits fuel consumption to roughly 21-23 MPG, not good enough for the typical "runner" truck ( still far better than a gasser )

Perhaps I am just way ahead of the curve here in the US, poohy96, hows the weather in NZ, and do they have idiotic regulations regarding ME's?

 

[dalcazar]

I dunno about a 3-cylinder diesel in a pickup, sounds a little weak to me, but they're out there, mercedes makes a turbocharged 3 banger diesel for the smart cars, toyota has a 3 cylinder diesel coming out in the aygo. we're talking over 60 mpg with those.

tractors use 3-cylinder diesels, I work with one occasionaly, it's naturaly aspirated and sucks for acceleration but with the right gearbox it might work in a car (it's huge tho)

 

[KiwiME]

patdaly, pretty good weather here but also changeable enough to keep it interesting. Not sure about regs for ME's as I'm not working. There really aren't many laws at all here.

 

[kmb1949]

I am developing a 3 cylinder diesel that I believe will light up a F150 or Siverado truck. 240 CI common rail injection that is light weight. I have been working on the project for over two years and I hope to have running prototypes on the dyno in a few months.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[patdaly]

kmb1949:

Will this be EPA certified for light truck use? If so, do you need beta testers? LOL, I can be persuaded to offer my K2500 entended cab 4X4 with a NV4500 for trials. If it will help, I also have a full shop at my disposal.

 

[DAVIDSTECKER]

kmb1949,
I'd interested to know YOUR reasons for working with a 3 cyclinder instead of a 4 cyclinder.

 

[LadaTrouble]

Like the other non US posters I can't figure out where you're coming from - I think your problem is unique to your corner of the world.Here in New Zealand the light truck with a 4 cyl diesel does most of the work,you name it,they do it.They are all COE to maximise load space,they are not comfortable,they are not ment to be,but they are easy to drive with good visability,they take huge abuse forever and ever.

I have a Nissan Vanette with a 2 litre diesel that does all my dirty work,my daily drive is a well equiped Pajero LWB with a 2.5 turbo intercooled 4 cyl diesel with balance shafts,I also have a Nissan Lauel - this uses Skyline running gear with a 2.8 6cyl diesel developed from the Skyline RB motor,a classy drive for a diesel.

We see the odd US pick up,like F250s and Rams etc,but they are not very practical,having a very long wheelbase and not much load space for their size,you mainly see them on the open road pulling a huge trailer...they are good for that,but not in cities.

 

[RikuY]

If they made it, I would buy one. I wanted one this year, but nothing available.

I am talking about GM's Colorado/S-10 size trucks with a small turbo 4-cylinder. Even the 1/2-ton trucks like the 1500 Silverado would be great.

Also, all the international diesel trucks/utilities are great applications if we (I am in the U.S.) could only have access to them.

I need a bullet-proof truck that can work on weekends and carry 4-passengers to lunch during the week.

My apologies to the international members for the model names, as I don't know if/what they are sold as internationally.

 

[swall]

A Cummins B series in a Hummer II would be nice.

 

[d22bio]

Hey,
After searching for the past year and seeing the price of gas climb 10% in Ontario, Canada. I found another diesel to replace my '85 Volvo 740 Turbo-Diesel Wagon. It's a 1984 Ford Ranger with a [2.2L Perkins Diesel]. Should make a great bio-diesel conversion.
I have found a used propane cylinder to mount in the bed and convert to two fuel systems for the climate changes that mother nature has for my driving.

Regards,
BioAl

 

[swall]

Looks like there is a picture of the Navistar V6 in the February issue of the SAE magazine (page 32). I belive this engine was intended for light trucks and SUV's. The article has nothing to do about the engine--they are discussing diesel fuel standards.

 

[bentwings1]

Four years ago I wouln't have given a rat's a... for a diesel truck. Then one day I decided I needed a truck. So I said if I'm having a truck it's not going to be a car that thinks it's a truck nor a truck that thinks it's a car. That left 1 ton diesel, manual trans and a dually besides. It gets 20+ mpg, rides hard, sounds like a truck and rolls coal when necessary. You get in it just like getting on a horse, left foot on the step and sling the rest of you on (not in). It's gone 110,000 miles on the Michlins and still has some to go, less than $250 in repairs in 4 years, starts at -20F and will pull anything I'll ever want to pull as fast as I'll ever want to pull it. Not only that the body will probably be gone long before the motor ever wears out. The truck is easy to work on when necessary like change oil and fuel filter.
I think a good share of the lure of diesel trucks is the lack of desire to own and operate the cars ???? of today.
No market for diesel trucks??? more than just a few families have no cars..3 trucks, all diesels. Try to find a VW TDI. Incredible mileage and durability.
Oh yes the Cummins 5.9 is an I-block six not a v-8. Make that clear. There are good reasons for in-line six over the v-8.
The funny thing is that now the real need for a truck is limited and I still like the truck over the cars.
Ultimately the energy issue will force alternate fuels including bio-diesel. With the advent of bio-diesel the smell will turn to french fries and the smoke will be a thing of the past. Diesels will begin to prevale. Outside of the USA diesel make up a very significant percentage of the vehicles as noted by Aussie.

 

[evelrod]

Pat D., take a look at the new Jeep Gladiator. Cool little truck...Chrysler has a good track record with this type of project...2.9 litre four cylinder Diesel! I also looked at the new Toyota Land Cruiser...nice little rig...no Diesel for the U.S. market and no pickup version, at least, not yet.

Rod

 

[patdaly]

Rod, I drooled over the Gladiator from the first concept drawings. It probably will not be built, too "truckish" for most. I love the thing though. I guess I am going to have to straight axle and 4BT my 95 to obtain the perfect truck.