Will online degrees ever reach high status in the US? 11

[EngineerDave]

Will the online degree replace the traditional university degree with regards to engineering? There are several online degrees available now from places, including engineering masters degrees.

Here is what I see as the limitations of such a degree now:

1) Lack of hands-on classes, such as labs
2) Lack of name recognition bias (would you hire a grad of an online university or an established brick and mortar university)
3) Exam proctoring. Would all the exams now be open book?
4) Accreditation issues.

On the plus side, this would help many working professionals continue their education.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I personally have some with the videotape masters program that a company I work with offered. But I found that to be a watered down degree to serve the purposes of the automotive company I worked for.

 

[Focht3]

[blue]stel8[/blue] opined,

I believe that the time will come when the academic and professional status will separate completely. It will be a test/exam to define who is allowed to practice engineering without exception.

Nope. Texas used to allow non-degreed individuals to become licensed. The rule was changed about 10 years ago - for several reasons. First, too few individuals were becoming licensed that way. Second, those that were following the "work experience" track had many more complaints, disciplinary hearings, etc. than the typical degreed engineer.

You're swimming against the current on that point -



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[ietech]

I think a person can learn just as well in a remote environment, of course this depends on the degree of diligence and committment by each individual. Although I do not think remote learning will be generally accepted by industry.

Focht3,

In addition to the benefits of ensuring engineering competency, revenue generation must have been an issue.

I would suspect, since there were too few individuals becoming licensed there were revenue shortfalls within the regulatory body. Thus 10 years ago it enacted rules that would compel folks to become licensed.

Just based on observation of government in action. Revenue is generally the bottom line.

 

[Focht3]

[blue]ietech[/blue] -

I'm sorry - but that doesn't make any sense. The issue was closing a method for becoming licensed (which generates fees) because it wasn't being used much and was apparently damaging the public health, safety and welfare (hence all the complaints.) The Board doesn't get any revenue from ABET or the universities, only from applicants and license renewal fees.

The total number of applicants has grown steadily over the years. Historically, the number of non-degreed individuals had been quite small; the big change in the application process apparently started about 30 or 40 years ago with the steady rise of applicants from outside the U.S. that had not attended ABET-accredited schools.

Money was not the issue.



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[stel8]

There is pressure to come to international agreements for professional qualifications. NAFTA is a good example of such agreement transfer for engineers. Workforce mobility will (in years, but it will) make it easier to practice engineering in any signatory state (USA, Canada, Mexico). Engineering regulatory bodies will impose strict licence exams. That's why I believe that academic and professional licence will be distinct and separated. Which means that how you get the degree is not as important, as long as you can pass the professional examination.

On the other hand, communication technology is changing very rapidly. Students in any course can chat and exchange info by email, prof's website provides all required knowledge, evaluation can be done on internet, etc. Face to face learning becomes more expensive when the students live in different places.

I agree that labs are not only important but crucial to learn engineering. However, they will be done in a virtual environment because the technology is already available.

A Very Happy New Year to all! May that Engineering will survive well and be there for a long time!

 

[ietech]

Focht3

I am in agreement with you on the points you raised. I merely stated "in addition" to those points money must have to contributed to the the decision to change.

In my short 60 years I have never seen government ignore the possibility of more revenue. Without it all govt. agencies, whether service or regulatory, would be unable to function.

Even if the old system had the ability to generate revenue, if no one was applying for licensure there would be no money generated.

If you believe that money is not an issue then I respect your opinion.

 

[Focht3]

Hmmm,

[blue]ietech[/blue]:
Well, expenses could have been a factor, due to the time and effort needed to investigate the complaints. But I sincerely doubt it - guilty parties are fined pretty heavily, so much of the cost is covered.

I think it was a combination of lack of use, the aggravation of time spent by the Board members in hearings (there's an economic factor!), and public image, not monetary issues.

[blue]stel8[/blue]:
I'm pro-NAFTA and have a lot of foreign-trained engineers as friends. Your assertion of some separation between "academic and professional license" is heading the wrong direction. In many ways, our foreign partners have a stronger desire to maintain high academic requirements than U.S. engineers. Moving away from a "college degree from an approved engineering school is required" to an "engineering degree is optional" system seems pretty unlikely in my view. And you have the bulk of U.S. engineers and engineering schools opposed as well.

As an ol' country boy once told me, "That dog don't hunt." And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen...



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[cseibert]

I am currently employeed but am taking on-line classes to get my BS degree. There are limited BS degrees out there in the engineering world. The only one that I found in Engineering when I decided to go back to school is a BS in Electrical/Mechanical Engineering Technology. While it is not a full blown engineering degree we are required for some classes to attend lab sessions to get the needed hand-on experience that the teachers feel important to the class. I have also had classes where I need to buy the supplies to complete some labs at home (electronics design). So there is some hands on both on site and at home. As far as exams, there are quite a few classes that require proctored exams, your proctor can be a supervisor of yours at work or reccommended is using a local community college to supervise. I think that this degree is going to help me, I learn new things in every class and the instructors come from real life jobs and have great experience to share in their classes both on-line and in person. This degree is accredited by ABET so there is some credibility in the degree and the required classes needed. If anyone wants to find out more feel free to contact myself or check out the RIT webpages.
Cory

ccrandallseibert@hotmail.com

 

[xerxy]

There are some types of engineering disciplines that might be better suited for distance learning. Software Engineering is an obvious choice for distance learning while Nuclear Engineering really wouldn't be a good choice distance learning.

Often engineering design can have life or death consequences, so it would be important to make sure that the recipients of the distance degrees are capable of the work required.

I think that the best use of distance learning degrees is to supplement a working, traditionally degreed engineer's knowledge and give him or her some recognition for it.

 

[electricpete]

Distance learning programs can require the exams to be handled by certified proctors. The proctor receieves, administers, and sends back the exam along with their signed statement that the exam has been handled in accordance with program requirements.

It is incorrect to assume that testing standards for distance learning must be less stringent that on-campus programs.

I suspect that most of the people in this thread who have implied that distance learning should be considered inferior to on-campus education (without consideration of which program) probably don't have any direct first-hand knowledge of distance learning programs.

Those who say that distance learning is perceieved as substandard may be correct.

 

[electricpete]

... I would like to take it a step further and use the Georgia Tech program I mentioned above as an example.

I viewed the exact same lectures, submitted the exact same homework assingments and projects, and took the exact same tests as on-campus students. Is there someone here who thinks that my education should be viewed as inferior to the on-campus students? (if so I would disagree).

 

[ietech]

electricpete

Georgia Tech is a fine school and I think your degree should be of equal value to those who attended on-campus.

After all, if the only difference was the parking permit, finding that elusive parking place in the south forty, and the walk from the car to class --- why should your education be of lesser value.

Whether professional organizations or industry will have the same point of view, probably not --- well, I really don't know.

Concensus on this thread seems to be somewhat negative, I hope they are wrong in your case.

ietech

 

[CRG]

I believe that it is the quality of the University that counts in weighting the value of a degree. A BS degree from a school that does is not meet the standards of ABET is of limited value for a professional engineer. In contrast, a degree from a University that has met the standards of ABET is worth much more. Also, it helps if the University has an excellent reputation for its quality of education.

Perhaps the question might be is whether ABET is giving accreditation for the distant learning degrees. If so, I don’t see the difference between watching the class on a Video at home or sitting the class room.

 

[stel8]

CGR is correct. How would you compare a weak in-class program compared by a well-designed and delivered distance program?

 

[grogan5]

I think accredited online degrees and other distance learning programs have their place. It is only a matter of time before it reaches full exceptance. I would never hire an engineer who only has an online degree without other experience and I would never suggest prospective engineer pursue their degree on line in leiu of a traditional education. However, I only have an Assoc. of Science degree, but I have over 25 years in the engineering field. I normally do more engineering work in a day than most of my degreed co-workers do in a week. My title here at work is Machine Design Engineer, but I make less than 60% of the pay of an entry level engineer, and will never be considered for a promotion with out a BS or BA. I even run a Machine Design consulting service on the side. I will be starting an online degree in the next couple of months, not because it will be easier but out of necessity. There are no traditional colleges near me that offer night or evening classes, and with a family of five to support, I can not leave my job to pursue a higher degree.

 

[andystar22]

Looking for insight about getting a masters through online education... any insights? I have a BSEE, been working in circuits for 7 years (some bipolor design, a little cmos, and lots of physical layout both at gate and full-chip level)

My concerns are the following:
1) I've been out of school 7 years and am worried I need to brush up on electrical engineering basics (+math) before starting a Masters in EE.
2) Should I go MSEE or MBA?
3) It looks like it will take 4-5 years since I work full time. Is this hard to do over such a long time frame?

Thanks for any input,
AndyStar22

 

[nur12]

I'm a mecahnical engineer (BSEE) working full time in oil & gas and thinking about on-line Master's Degree program. I've found one in the University of Illinois on-line:

http://www.uic.edu/eng/meng/

In the course outline it is mentioned: "The MEng is a professional degree based entirely on course work, without a research component". Does it mean that the course is going to be shorter (3-4 years)? Does somedody have any experience with this course?

Thanks,

Inna

 

[imagitec]

NC State is another university offering online programs:

http://distance.ncsu.edu.

Whatever else online programs may be, they aren't any cheaper than their in-person counterparts. Out of state tuition is $1800 per three credit hour course.


Rob Campbell

http://www.livejournal.com/users/robcampbell

 

[glenn11897]

i earned my BSME from San Diego State Univ and working full time. i am considering taking online classes (for masters).

the internet really revolutionized a lot of things. i think online degrees should be recognized like the degrees earned from "brick & mortar" universities. its only a matter of which online university a person will be taking the classes from (therefore some recognized accreditation should be establihed).

 

[jimkaren]

I went through Purdue's online engineering education program for (MS)ECE while in Chicago back in the mid 90's and my wife went through Georgia Tech's online engineering program for (MS)ME while in North Carolina. We were both working at the time, both part time programs are from their main campus with no reference to online anything, and both are ABET accredited.

Although I had to drive down to Purdue Calumet to view the lectures via tape, I did the same exact same homework assignments and projects as those taking the lectures live. The Purdue program cost me about $8k over 3 years with no thesis, but is generally only avail only if you live in Indiana or work at some select employers like big3.

Just another option to consider.

https://engineering.purdue.edu/CEE/credit_programs/documents/degree_options

 

[jimkaren]

Actually, I just looked at the following URL:

https://engineering.purdue.edu/CEE/resources_for/prospective_students/Site_reps

They actually now have some more distant 'P' (Public) sites like:

GA Lawrenceville Gwinnett Technical College (Atlanta)
IA Spirit Lake Iowa Lakes Community College
IL Palatine William Rainey Harper College
MI Ann Arbor University Of Michigan Business School
MI Benton Harbor Whirlpool Corporation
NC Cary Caterpillar, Inc.
NM Albuquerque University of New Mexico
TX Richardson University of Texas - Dallas

The majority of sites are still specific companies (must be employed there) or public access sites in Indiana like what I did at Purdue Calumet (regional small campus in NW Indiana), but who knows. They or you may be able to get the company sponsoring the viewing to let you in if you are diplomatic on a case by case basis.