Women Engineers.... 44

[lisa247]

I think most people prefer working with nice people to working with brown nosers, but I dont see how hiring someone because they are attractive is any more acceptable than hiring someone because they are brown nosers. Your opinion on this might be different if you were the person who didnt get the job because you weren't as good looking as the useless idiot you were up against!

Just out of interest, what was your reasoning for starting this thread in the first place?

Lisa

 

[Deacy]

Have we come to a point where the personell dept has to have a second checklist hidden under the desk? The top one measures competence, education and skils to do the job; the second has questions on "Is theis potential employee going to be distractingly attractive? Can we fill the race / gender / ethnic / sexual preference / minority quota with this one? Will we have to put in separate toilet facilities because the law says so? Will there be future maternity issues?" Encourage more people generally into every work environment certainly, but people have to be comfortable knowing they can have a work life balance and make their job work for thir life not the other way around. A large percentage of men and women of childbearing age want to have children and it is true to say that while it may not harm the father's career in any way the mother will have to reassess her priorities. Engineering is not known for breast feeding rooms / on the job creches / flexible working hours and family day. Old fashioned? Sexist? maybe but true nevertheless.Women want to have it all - when men give birth we will.

 

[lacajun]

Believe me, when you have been the victim of a brown-noser who actively harms you and your career, you tend not to worry so much about some of the other stupid decisions management make.

You are so right. I've experienced this multiple times and it is very destructive. Others can ruin your reputation before you even understand what they're doing. That happens to men and women.

To demonstrate that I empathize with men, a young man I worked with was bright, happy-go-lucky, good personality, good work ethic, etc. People in management didn't like him. He was told, at the urinal, by a manager that his career had gone as far as it was going to go with the company. What kind of power play is that amongst men?

That kind of stuff is schoolyard bully garbage in a more "refined" setting.

 

[lisa247]

Deacy - are you suggesting then that women should not persue a career in Engineering then? Or have I misunderstood your point?

Lisa

 

[SNORGY]

@ lacajun:

My response, as I looked down, would have been:

"Wow! These facilities are clean! As I look down, I can actually see *your* reflection!"

But...that's just me...

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[indme]

Greg,

No way do I think that introducing cheaper labor at home is a way to counter low-cost foreign competition! I want to keep our wages up.

Another comment by another poster was 'isn't that what H1-B visas are for?' Yes!

Corporations complain that they can't get enough engineering labor and need umpteen thousand H1B visas. Engineers complain due to being out of work, but no one listens, but no one plays the sex card. IEEE has even posted position papers on the topic; no more H1-B'S until the need is proven. If 50,000 women engineers were out of work and complaining about foreign engineers being chosen over local female engineers, Congress would be forced to act. If a group like IEEE or ASME, perceived to be a bunch of majority WM's, complain, no one listens.

 

[GregLocock]

So which part of economics 101 doesn't apply?

You say you want to increase the price of a commodity (our wages) by increasing the supply of that commodity by encouraging "innovators of all sexes, races and ages to enter the engineering workforce".

Conventional theory would predict the opposite.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[lacajun]

If 50,000 women engineers were out of work and complaining about foreign engineers being chosen over local female engineers, Congress would be forced to act.

@indme, they wouldn't act. I've been called a "token" countless times in the workplace and nothing happened. I discussed a number of issues much worse than being called a "token" with HR over the years to find resolutions without calling lawyers but nothing happened. Nothing will happen until all in the engineering community band together to get things changed. It seems strength in numbers is what gets attention.

 

[KENAT]

Until you abuse the power that comes with that strength and undermine your own position, like some unions seem to have done to some extent in some segments/employers - after all, power corrupts.

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[lacajun]

And this young lady is learning the naysayers exist in her generation.

Teen Who Challenged Bachmann to Constitutional/Civics Debate Running for Class President

 

[lacajun]

NSF Report Re: Why Women Leave Engineering

 

[josephv]

Here are some interesting articles about a young woman (currently studying engineering in Princeton) who has developed an interesting invention:

http://www.thestar.com/business/cle...ilton-solving-energy-problems-with-girl-power

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/shines+Calgary+student+inventor/4897543/story.html

 

[GregLocock]

More (solar) power to her elbow, but so what, in the context of this thread?

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[josephv]

Here is another article on Eden Full the young woman studying Engineering at Princeton who invented a $20 solar tracking system.

http://www.energymatters.com.au/index.php?main_page=news_article&article_id=1564

BTW, not sure I follow your question, Greg (although I do enjoy Australian expressions), but it certainly is an interesting story about a woman engineer (or in this case engineering student).

cheers,

 

[GregLocock]

An article about a solar tracker invention seems to have zero relevance to this thread, unless you think we are supposed to stand back in amazement and gasp when a woman invents something.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[FeX32]

you think we are supposed to stand back in amazement and gasp when a woman invents something

I'm with Greg.


Fe

 

[josephv]

I have to respectfully disagree, because the story reminds me of two important points:

1) Despite the challenges and sometimes outright discrimination there are many successful cases of women in engineering.

2) There has been progress compared to a few decades ago when discrimination was far worse. If it had not been for this progress our profession would have not benefitted from the substantial contribution of so many women who chose our profession. And maybe we would not have had Eden Full studying engineering and create her invention.

We should celebrate these achievements, but also acknowledge that discrimination is still a problem and see what can be done.

 

[jmw]

We live and learn.... apparently even seemingly innocent or at best, unconscious behaviour is a factor:

http://www.bnet.com/blog/health-fit...221-rampant-in-your-office/995?tag=sec-river3

At least I know not to whistle....

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[lacajun]

jmw, I think some are valid points but others are grasping at straws. Many of those comments can be turned around and stated to men and some will be offended.

 

[KENAT]

However, that's true for much of the report you post in your 30 May 11 23:50 post.

Most of the reasons they left were things that men face too. Perhaps the implication was women have a lower tolerance for them but in the bits of it I read that didn't leap out at me.

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