Working where everybody hates each other 23

[Space213]

I work at a sales driven startup where everybody seems to hate each other or have constant disagreements. Its fairly a new idea and what i see is people who are just fighting to prove themselves to who knows what.
It gets to a point where i become the punching bag to it because im a junior engineer while the directors are just worried about their reputation. Is this very usual in the workforce?
We can never stick to a design envelope then i am expected to change designs and all documents that follow in a nick of time so operations who is already the biggest blamer ever can just go on and get products out his own way.
Im 2yrs in and im like id rather suffer working for myself or try then deal with this constant animosity it almost feels like the upper guys just dont know what they're doing lol.

Guys ever deal with crap like this?

 

[SWComposites]

Unless you have shares in the company and prospects of an IPO payday, update your resume, and start looking for a new job. Its your career.

 

[GregLocock]

wot he said.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[IRstuff]

Sounds like a typical dysfunctional family; you can become as dysfunctional or leave. Clearly upper management isn't working well, or at all, or they're the ones causing/instigating the dysfunctionality. As with many other workplaces, there's a lesson to be learned, and then you move on the next class.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[FreddyNurk]

EDMS Australia

 

[LittleInch]

"Is this very usual in the workforce?"

In a surprising number of companies it seems it is, but that doesn't make it right or efficient.

If you have no effective management structure or person / people to talk to about this who actually want to change the culture of the company, then as said above, sharpen the CV and get looking.

Two years is enough to garner a surprising amount of experience that other companies will pay for to avoid the learning curve of new entrants to the workforce.

Just remember not to bad mouth your existing company and as hard as it might be from saying why you don't want to work at that company, but why you do want to work for the new company and how you can use your experience of working under pressure, adapting to different demands and still creating something which works to good effect at company Y.

You won't be able to fight a corporate culture like that, so either accept it or look elsewhere.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Jboggs]

When I look back over my four decade long resume I see one thing in common with ALL of the many and various jobs I've had. I learned some very valuable lessons at each one. (I could list them for you but that's not your question.) Then I realized a couple things about myself. One, at each job, I wasn't there to try to rise the top of that particular organization. I was there to learn what I could and move on to the next "learning experience".

Some of the most valuable lessons were how NOT to run a department, or how NOT to run a project, or how NOT to seek help from others, or how not to get caught by surprise with a failure you could have seen coming. Most of those lessons will come from simply watching how others do it. My most valuable lessons in management came from one of the worst managers I ever had. Just do the opposite. Simple.

A lifetime of learning has made for a very interesting career. Boredom has never been an issue. And two, despite some VERY tough experiences (including being fired - twice!) I wouldn't have traded it for any other career. Bottom line - look at it all as one big learning experience and never stop learning!

Of course much of your learning will be about technical issues, and they can be fascinating, but the main things you will learn are how (and how NOT) to get things done in a defective human environment. You will also learn much about yourself. You'll learn what you were meant to do, but maybe even more importantly what you were NOT meant to do. You'll learn how to be comfortable in your own skin with your own talents and make a good life.

 

[SuperSalad]

Guys ever deal with crap like this?

How is it we are working at the same company and haven't met?!

Yes, I have some (the exact) idea of what you are talking about.

Andrew H.

http://www.MotoTribology.com

 

[ctopher]

It's the norm these days that everyone is right. Thus, the arguments.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '17
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[CWB1]

I would discuss the situation with your supervisor to convey your feelings on the matter. Tell them that you feel beat-up during the constant infighting and ask at what point you should point others' toward your supervisor, because eventually your work will suffer. Its a tough conversation to have, but so long as you both are focused on improvement and helping each other rather than giving ultimatums to the other, it should be productive. The bit to realize is that most engineering supervisors/managers have no real education or training in management and are often terrible at it. In many cases they don't see everything and employees take on too much, so they don't realize what you're dealing with until you say something, so say something.

 

[Jboggs]

"so say something."

But be prepared from blowback from a manager who probably also isn't happy in his job and would rather not have to deal with yet another issue. Unfortunately, for many managers the solution to a problem is to simply make it go away.

If you are seen as complaining to the boss, don't expect a very sympathetic response. Instead, maybe see if you can frame it as a request for his help in increasing your productivity. People are much more likely to "help you solve a problem" than to take responsibility for it themselves.

Also, see if you can work in some compliments to his experience and wisdom. "I'm relatively new here and I want to learn from your experience if I can. I feel I'm not really providing the immediate responsiveness that is required many times. I'd like your advice or help. You know the number of requests that come through, and you know the amount of work it really takes to do the things asked of me. Is there some way I could prioritize better or be more productive? Could I redirect some of the requests somewhere else? What is your advice?"

Don't just come in with a problem. Come in with a suggested solution. And express an openness to any other suggested solutions.

Also, you've been there long enough now to learn to anticipate some of the types of changes that might be requested. Many times we can intentionally do our work in such a way that makes it easier and quicker to process future changes. Keep that in mind with everything you do.

 

[ashtree]

Start ups are often managed /owned by brilliant people with big egos. Conflict, argument and a lot of pushing and shoving is how these people function. They would say they will do whatever takes. Start ups also offer a lot of opportunity in experience, creativity, and just plain getting stuck in.
Once the start up becomes a real corporation very often the founders have to go because their big egos don't work in the corporate world.

Regards
Ashtree
"Any water can be made potable if you filter it through enough money"

 

[tygerdawg]

Organizational Psychology & Group Dynamics.
My friend with Psychology Ph.D. is expert in the field. Over the years I've learned a lot about how groups do/don't work well. My painful experiences validate the theories.

Premise: the person at the top of the organization will imprint their personality on the entire organization under them. If the Top Dawg is a selfish ego-driven sociopath, then everyone in the organization will become neurotic and possibly degrade into hostile psychotics.

Sounds like your organization is sick, toxic, and dysfunctional.


TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[SandCounter]

You are two years in. Your posts about your job went from good to bad to worse. Stay and be a willing instrument of change or move on.

 

[truckandbus]

my mantra has always been 'just because I work with you does not mean I like you' but out-and-out hatred? That is pretty rough.

 

[Space213]

Appreciate everybody's feedback here. Its a very dysfucntional environment. They complain about me not ever having the BOM right for operations. How can one have the BOM or even make a new one every week when the product keeps changing?

Nobody is ever on the same page but are only ready to blame the lower level employees because its the easy punching bag. The CTO is the only one trying to keep me (mainly because i've been behind their most successful designs but also because I take the abuse) even he knows the operations guy is a complete imbecile and disregards the situation and would rather blame then work as a team. Operations leader is just going behind closed doors and throwing a very dark cloud over my head and now the CEO wont even mention my name in meetings.

Just thinking of the daily experience at this job makes me sick especially when I bent over backwards for everybody for 2 years. I've already been applying for jobs. I just stayed this long due to covid but should of left a while ago, I am just scared that I will fall into another bad situation because you can never tell how the culture is.


Then again this a startup where HR is nonexistent.

 

[SWComposites]

There is zero correlation between good and bad work cultures and the existence or not of an HR dept.

 

[IRstuff]

Startups are chaotic by their very nature, since they grow by orders of magnitude in a very short time, usually too fast for any process to develop and/or propagate.

You bent over backwards because you're a nice guy; to expect something in return makes you a mercenary.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[Space213]

I just struggled to get a job out of college so when they hired me i just wanted to do every and anything. Too ambitious in general but they took advantage of it for sure. Welp not sure where to go from here except apply for new jobs.

Theres one guy in particular who is the operations guy complains constantly one on end bom is never right then also says your sales team orders a 1 off design each time to ceo. Its a mess he just loves to blame.Sadly its always behind closed doors. So I cant ever share my part ‍♂

 

[Jboggs]

Believe me - you're not the only one that sees that behavior. The rest of the adults there understand that it is simply a defense mechanism to deflect blame in any other direction. That also means that they don't give the constant complainer much credence. Honestly the only one you have to keep happy is your boss. It may be uncomfortable sometimes but as long as he's happy you will remain employed.

As you get older you will also see that young engineers make great targets. They are given a lot of responsibility when the only real education they have is what they've learned in school, which truly has little value in the helter-skelter world of running a business and keeping it profitable with employees that are all watching out for themselves. Most entrepreneurs have a business dream but little understanding of how to create a productive work environment.

I've been where you're at. Keep learning from your real world classes. You pay the tuition daily.