Working where everybody hates each other 23

[Space213]

I work at a sales driven startup where everybody seems to hate each other or have constant disagreements. Its fairly a new idea and what i see is people who are just fighting to prove themselves to who knows what.
It gets to a point where i become the punching bag to it because im a junior engineer while the directors are just worried about their reputation. Is this very usual in the workforce?
We can never stick to a design envelope then i am expected to change designs and all documents that follow in a nick of time so operations who is already the biggest blamer ever can just go on and get products out his own way.
Im 2yrs in and im like id rather suffer working for myself or try then deal with this constant animosity it almost feels like the upper guys just dont know what they're doing lol.

Guys ever deal with crap like this?

 

[1503-44]

Unbelievable!

Slam the door when you leave.

 

[Eric C.]

Bright side is im getting interest from other companies but we'll see where it goes.

You have now had a good education about the type of company and people you do NOT want to work with. Be sure and use what you've learned during your future interviews. They will be asking you lots of questions and you should not hesitate to ask your interviewer lots of direct questions about their company culture. Your experience will help you detect clues that you may be heading into another bad situation. Resist any urge to say anything derogatory about your current situation during interviews.

 

[ProEpro]

If there is not a functional change control process work with your boss to create and enforce one. It will appear to slow things down. However, all it really does is require the person requesting a change to put some thought into it and then for the change to be documented.

It won't solve the behavioral issue but it will produce better BOM.

At least you will have contributed a solution instead of only being part of the problem.

 

[RRiver]

I spent almost my last 20 years of working as a consultant and what you describe is all to common. Every place I saw it the problem could be identified as coming from the supervisor or owner. They all suffered from the delusion that a competitive work environment promoted productivity. It doesn't. It promotes animosity and reward seeking as the goal of the work. Find another job and don't look back. And, for your next job let whoever you interview with you want to walk around and talk to the people you might be working with. See what they have to say about the working conditions.

 

[drawoh]

Space213,

The discussion continues.

Consider the possibility that you are working on something that places your co-workers, your customers and/or the public in danger. Are you and your co-workers capable of holding a rational, professional discussion on a problem like this, or will someone win the argument all costs?

--
JHG

 

[CWB1]

The manager lectured me today that its not about the work you do even if its great and you work hard but its about how you can bullshit your appearance.

That's actually really good advice, appearance is indeed everything in many cases and is something many engineers struggle with. The guy that arrives at 8:10 will be a screwup to most folks regardless if he works a few hours OT daily. The engineer that allows others to walk over them in design reviews is usually not considered a bright guy. Stereotypes suck but they're part of nature.

Continuously rolling BOMs are common, you just need a well-organized process for controlling data - change control. PLM helps but ultimately you can manage it with a spreadsheet if everyone making changes communicates. Offices following the agile methodology often have a weekly or even biweekly functional product release/rev, those following lean tend to do it monthly or bimonthly. To each their own needs.

 

[Ron247]

Space213: Fill me in on some details.

The manager lectured me today that its not about the work you do even if its great and you work hard but its about how you can bullshit your appearance.

Who was the manager wanting you to BS? I only see 5 possibilities. BS a customer, him , coworkers, a higher-up boss or some combination. The only one I agree that there is a business need to "somewhat" BS is a customer. I have been reading this post since it started but never see enough information to give any advice (good or bad). Please relay a detailed account of what happened that prompted this statement from your manager.

You are asking for some serious job-changing advice, but I am really cloudy about what actually occurs in these situations you post.

The following are examples of specifics that would change many participants' advice.
[ul]
[li]In a meeting with a Client, your facial expression indicated you did not agree with something. Even if you were 100% right, you should have masked this judgement but did not. I may say "you should have BSed the client" or I may have said "You need to learn to not give out facial and body queues in meetings." In the first one, I the manager poorly worded my response, in the second one you poorly worded my response back to the eng-tips while I was in fact giving you VERY good advice.[/li]
[li]The accuracy of any account you relay here. Are you being fair in your depictions? For example, the bullet above. If I told you "In my opinion it is imperative to control emotions and not give off "vibes" in a meeting." But you relay that "as usual my boss spouted his opinion that he thinks is never wrong", that would not be a fair depiction to us although it may be true. Incidentally, all my opinions are never wrong, they are opinions. Make sure you know the difference between facts, conclusions and opinions.[/li]
[/ul]

Assuming all your comments are well-worded, I see no upside to staying. Because of the culture you indicate exists, the end product of your career will be poor.
[li]Outcome #1- you learn to "play the game" in which you ultimately become "one of them" and the next new hire views you the same as you view them now.[/li]
[li]Outcome #2-You stay frustrated constantly at work that will 100% guaranteed drastically affect all other aspects of your life. Find a good divorce lawyer, ulcer specialist and shrink now.[/li]
[li]Outcome #3-You manage to fake enough to survive but since you are not fairly respected in ability, you get less exposure to any challenges, creativity or skill boosting projects. In the end, you are at best a mediocre employee with pay to match.[/li]

If you think you will actually leave, prepare now. Don't buy that new car, take on unneeded debt or do anything in the short term that may hinder leaving unless you have plenty in the bank. "Engineer" how you will leave and try to leave to a successful future rather than going from Jerk 1 to Jerk 2.

Final note. No matter how bad it is there, I bet there are worse places just like there are better places. Never use the thought process of "Well it can't be any worse than where I am now." If you think this, here is my advice. Stay where you are, apparently no one there will get worse with time, they will not hire any new employees that would make it worse and there is "100% potential" that it will improve. WOW.

 

[TheTick]

If you're going to work where everyone hates each other, you might as well be on tour with The Who.

 

[Space213]

Ron247,

Appreciate your insight. The manager would tell me over and over again that no matter how hard you work your perception is based on how you show off yourself at work and who comes early.

The sad part is the ones who come early to this job actually screw off the most with office gossip etc.

I was crushed today because I am trying my best to not only help operations but also get my work done and the manager comes in end of day and starts to complain on me again. He isnt being totally upfront.

Its a difficult thing to explain in full detail because its over the course of 2 years of ms getting abused yet same time im given the most projects.

I am applying till i get something. It is seriously not worth it to go through this crap. I come home these days and find myself tired out and take naps. I would never do this before.

Thanks again

 

[Space213]

Also the biggest issue is our operations guy. He just loves to blame you over every and anything knowing the situation of our company.

I will avoid start ups forever after this. Its very toxic

 

[Jboggs]

Space213,
Two comments:
One - "yet same time im given the most projects". There's a reason for that. If you weren't getting the job done you wouldn't get the work. It's a subtle, unstated compliment.

Two - "Also the biggest issue is our operations guy. He just loves to blame you over every and anything knowing the situation of our company." Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. There is a true fact that is easily missed when one is in the midst of the commotion: Everyone sees the same thing you do. Everyone knows the man is a mud-slinger. Everyone knows he blows all the time, that he's full of crap. As a result they pay little attention to him. They all know his rants are just an effort to deflect blame.

If they truly were not happy with your work you would be gone.

Now, I'm going to be a little harsh myself - quit your whining. Man up and take charge of your situation. Don't pretend to accept blame for things over which you have no control. If that means moving on then do it and put it behind you. Another class in your education of life. If you stay, do so on your own terms.

Insist on fully defined scopes of work before you start a project. Ask the hard questions and insist on answers. Do good work. On time and on budget. Fully checked and right the first time.

Do not make promises you can't keep. If you promise something move heaven and earth to make it happen.

Create a written record. Insist that ALL instructions or requests come to you in writing. We have a saying: if it wasn't written down it never happened. "If your request wasn't written down I never heard it." You don't have to be ugly about it. Just say "I'd really like to do that for you but my plate is so full I can't promise it. Please do us both a favor and send me an email about it. That way I can look into it and get back to you with a response. Thank you!" If they "forget" to write you it wasn't important anyway, and they can't blame you for not getting it done. You TOLD them you wouldn't unless you got a request in writing.

 

[Space213]

JBoggs, you're right if its an unstated compliment then why do i get abused by CTO All the time it isnt fair. Nobody else gets disrespected like I do.

And yes you are right about the whining I have been trying my best to do the best work yet i get such idiotic advice from him. I will just take charge and find a new gig. Ive been applying so lets see.

One reason i feel they could not fire me is this is a start up and if they do fire me i dont think they would want take up the issues of unemployment. But i could be totally wrong on this.

Is this true in cases of small companies who dont even have a 401k yet?

 

[IRstuff]

If they fire you for cause, there is no unemployment, generally, at least, in the US.

why do i get abused by CTO All the time it isnt fair. Nobody else gets disrespected like I do.

Because, you apparently continue to strive to do even more work; you can beat a dead horse all you want, but dead horses do no work.

After 53 posts, you know all there is to know, so it is indeed time to man-up and move on with life.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[Ron247]

I would move on as soon as possible but I would want to leave to what appears to be a better job although you never know till you get there and go to work.

The idea of staying at a company that is guided by people who think appearance trumps substance is unthinkable to me. The problem with working with butt-kissers and fakes is they are difficult to beat out when the management you describe appears clueless. After all, people who love what they do are really good at what they do. With that in mind, butt-kissers and fakes LOVE what they do. That is why they are so good at it.