Working with EEs 2

[Tunalover]

Guys,
If you do electronics packaging design for a living, is your boss and ME or an EE? If EE, do you feel he/she is adequate for the role seeing how he/she is not an ME? What attitudes do you see among managers and EEs in your workplace about the work you do?

ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

 

[IRstuff]

Seems silly if that were true; mahogany row gets the credit for a good manager with a highly performing team.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[3DDave]

The -other- managers. It's pretty easy to go to mahogany row and ask for 'help' from the good team, by tearing it into tiny pieces for the sole purpose of killing it. No doubt the good manager explained that this would be a bad idea, but was over ruled by the much larger number of threatened ones.

 

[BlackJackJacques]

I know I will catch much flack for this:

My observations -

Characteristics inherent in engineers do not necessarily map to good project management tendencies unless the engineer has received additional training, education, and experience on project management (PM) issues. Frequently, PM duties are assigned to the bean counter or non-engineer because the bean counter will place greater weight on meeting project timing, avoiding delay and disruption and associated penalties, avoiding change-order extras, etc.

Engineers are naturally geared towards improvement rather than acceptance of a non-optimized design, and therefore, have great difficulty in "freezing the design." Lots of times, the engineer is given the task of performing conformity assessment and acceptance for a design he or she had nothing to do with. It is a big pill for the engineer to swallow if they have to sign off on an item, although compliant with the governing specifications, is somehow not the way that engineer would have done it.

Engineers hold dear the fact that it is OK to spend extra money to fix a perceived deficiency. They readily respond and defends their positions with sayings that adeptly rolls off their tongues, such as: "Not enough money to do it right, but all the money in the world to fix it later"

It is hard to say whether this condition maps to the traditional ABET curriculum that is bereft of PM curriculum items, or the INTP personalities that drive one towards an engineering career in the first place - maybe both.

Jim

 

[waross]

One of the best General Managers I ever worked for was not an EE.
He told me a story about his early career.
There was a job coming up that he was in line for and and wanted. More of a sideways move than a promotion but he was looking forward to it.
He was called in to his supervisors office for the let down.
His supervisor conceded that he was in line for the job and it may seem unfair that he was not going to get it.
His supervisor then pointed out that the man chosen for that position was very good at what he did.
So good in fact that 10 years from now he would still be doing the same thing. He was to valuable at that level to promote to a higher position.
The supervisor went on to say that it had been noted that my friend had excellent people skills.
He was going to be more valuable in management working with people.
"In ten years, the other man may well be working for you."
Not long after he was promoted to a better job and spent the rest of his career in management.

On the other hand I had a similar position (Head of electrical and instrumentation design, procurement and installation.) under an ME who micromanaged to the point that I would come in in the morning and discover that my drawings had been changed to an inferior, more costly, design.
I didn't last long there. Glad to be gone.
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[Tunalover]

Guys,
The science and engineering part of me tells me that an ME must be managed by another ME, at least in functional management. The reason I say this is purely in the interest of the company and their customers.

Suppose a fresh-out ME created a new life-critical electronic product design with lots of fasteners that needed to be prevented from loosening in a harsh dynamic environment. And suppose he/she put a helical-split lock washer into every bolted joint. His/her EE manager was the only person available to review the design before the aggressive and crucial ship date. The design was hurriedly exempted from the usual design validations so that no one challenged the washers in design reviews and no vibration/shock tests were carried out (OK, maybe this is a little far-fetched but stay with me).

The product was released for production, got assembled, shipped into the field, and used for the first time in combat conditions. Anytime a ground vehicle was underway, the bolted joints loosened up so much that some failed. The failures caused some products to separate from their mounting brackets leaving many loose fasteners in the crew compartments. Some products failed operationally once they hit the floor and the fasteners were getting scattered all over getting into places where they didn't belong.

Now EEs don't know much about fasteners. We can all agree on that. In fact, I've never met one that knew a bolted joint with NO locking provision was better than one WITH a helical-split lock washer.

In this example, this EE mechanical engineering manager was the last line of defense before the product was assembled and fielded but he didn't catch the error. The fresh-out didn't know any better since they don't teach such things in college.

So I repeat my assertion that MEs need to be managed by MEs. When the aren't, the MEs can do stupid things or get away with things they shouldn't. Only an experienced ME can catch mechanical design errors. Only an experienced ME won't let people "pull the wool over his eyes" with regard to mechanical design and only an experienced ME can sort fact from fiction when it's time to write performance appraisals!


ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993

 

[drawoh]

Tunalover,

The buzzword for today is Matrix Management!

The Dominion Consolidated Widgets Corporation is designing a medical device with a microprocessor, servo-devices and pneumatics. Someone has to run the project. The following stuff must be understood somehow...

[ul]
[li]The medical issues the device addresses[/li]
[li]the software -- possibly it must be very, very reliable[/li]
[li]Power supplies[/li]
[li]Actuator controls[/li]
[li]Product housing -- it must look cool, it must shield EMI/RIF, it must be sealed and rugged[/li]
[li]Mechatronics[/li]
[li]Pneumatics[/li]
[li]PCB design[/li]
[li]Fabrication drawings and DFMA[/li]
[li]User interface[/li]
[/ul]

I am pretty certain I have missed stuff.

No-one is capable of doing all the above stuff competently. Even if the project manager understands some of the details, they don't have time to work on them properly. They have to trust the people on their team. Each team member must be competent, and respectful and communicative with the rest of the team.

The project is the vertical structure, run by the project manager. The project manager directs the project team, makes sure the work is being done, and trust the team members. The horizontal structure is the mechanical department. The mechanical department performs job interviews, performance reviews, works out standards and professional development. There are horizontal structures for electronics and software, industrial design, and for any other areas of expertise required by the company. There are vertical structures for the other projects.

The mechanical designer must be an experienced person the project manager can trust. Junior mechanical designers can work within the mechanical department under the supervision of the designers on the project.

--
JHG

 

[itsmoked]

Well explained drawoh.

Competent.
Competent includes checking of one's choices. The noob who decides on using useless crap split-washers should ask more experienced staff even if just over a coffee, "does this make sense?"

Trustworthy.
Includes the ability to declare, "I need a little help here".

Tuna, the hypothetical you described above required a lack of competency, dishonesty, and frankly, some corporate malfeasance. After being raked over the coals they'd have been black-listed for several years for the described travesty.

I saw nothing in it that would've required an ME to be in charge of MEs, only untrustworthy incompetents that probably would've taken down their busy ME boss too.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[IRstuff]

" buzzword for today"

LOL, matrix (project) vs. functional management has been a recurring conflict for DECADES!

EVERYONE wants a manager that "understands" them and "knows" what they do, but at some level that paradigm stops, whether it's and IPT lead from another discipline or a general manager who's a business person or from another discipline. What matters is not the discipline, but the competency as a manager, the ability to let you do your job while running down blockers in your way, and treating you with respect. You don't need to be an ME or an EE to be a decent person or a decent manager, you just need a decent person/manager.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[3DDave]

drawoh,

I was in such an organization; it really goes to crap fast if one of the groups has the slightest flaw.

<rant about orgs pitted against each other>

None of what is done is all that difficult to understand, but when responsibility gets passed to someone who failed to understand basics about how matter and energy function together in favor of an MBA or a PMP or anything from INCOSE then beware.