Writing racing rules - ECU tune checking?

[Cashmo]

Please excuse my basic questions, I'm not exactly a ECU tuning expert. I'm on a rules writing committee for an racing organization and trying to educate myself on our options regarding ECU tuning/checking for a class that's supposed to be close to bone stock. Our current rules don't allow any ECU modifications but the subject has come up regarding how to verify if one's been modded. If we can't ensure a stock ECU tune the argument is that we should just change the rule to allow tuning. But that will be perceived as a "must do" mod, especially for classes that include turbo cars, adding more costs to run.

Is the following plausible? Since each mfg has multiple ECU versions through the life of a car model, could we require that competitors run the latest version and then get that checksum to compare to? Or is it too easy to reprogram the ECU back to stock with the touch of a few interior buttons between the competition and tech/impound? I'm guessing there's no universal reader to use on all cars, correct?

Is there any other way to ensure a stock tune on modern cars?

Thanks for your help,
Jeff

 

[TonyDeRamo]

What kind of cars are running in this?

I don't think you can require that competitors run the latest ECU in a car model even if it was compatible, that's basically a forced modification.

And yes you can change tunes with the push of a button, if the car is properly equipped.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Anyone who can reprogram an ECU can figure out how to make a checksum come out to any arbitrary value, including that of a stock chip. I.e., if you're not prepared to do byte for byte comparisons with a library of allowable chip versions, you may be better off leaving ECU mods wide open, or disallowing ECUs completely.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Cashmo]

To be clear, I'm talking about reprogramming the stock ECU that comes on the car. I had the idea that competitors would be required to go to their dealership the week before competition to get the latest version. Then, if protested, we'd read the checksum, take the car to the dealership to load the latest version, read again and compare checksums.

The more I read about the subject it seems you can either fudge the checksum or just swap back the stock version before tech/impound.

Thanks for the info,
Jeff

 

[MikeHalloran]

I have an old laptop that displays my name during bootup. I reflashed the bios, changing the copyright message just a little. The flash loader balked because the checksum was not what it expected. So I found one byte that wasn't displayed, and wasn't doing anything else, and changed it to make the checksum come out right. I wasn't sure how much of the flash image was included in the checksum, so it took two tries to get it right. Not that hard, even for a MechE.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Byte for byte comparison is the only truly valid method...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[dgallup]

Dealers will want $$ to reflash and ECU adding cost for no benefit.

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[LionelHutz]

You really only have a few options.

#1. Your organization can own stock ECU's that are issued as the car leaves the pit and then collected when the car enters the pit again. This would be difficult if you're talking about stock cars vs say crate engines.

#2. You just allow modifications. There are so many variations between car models that it would be almost impossible to track them. There are often year to year and even within year programming changes to fix or improve a vehicles operation. A car model that has run 5+ years might have 100's of different factory ECU programs.

#3. You could have a claimer rule for the ECU. Not sure this would work when different makes and models are running though.

 

[patprimmer]

You could check the ECU output for certain input I would think. This still won't solve the multitude of standards you would have to verify then test to.

It's probably easier, fairer and cheaper in the long run to make ECU free or stock appearing ECU modifications are free.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

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for site rules

 

[MCoupeAtlanta]

Oh, heavens. I am in such a position, as a driver. I am certain that 98% of my REAL competition has had their ECU flashed, to advance timing for the allowed race fuel, remove the red line limit, remove the limp-home program, security lock-outs, and the like.

In my case, the entire ECU program would have to be downloaded, and compared byte-by-byte with the factory ECU's. For an engine that has been produced for ten years. And your standard reader won't work, it has to be a factory-certified and provided reader - which are rare. Which might be rented. . . At no doubt very high cost. . . And then, certification that my program is not one of the legal dozens or hundreds of programs.

I personally am not worried. "It's not stock? Oh my. I just bought the ECU, assuming that it was stock. <blink blink> Exactly what do the modifications do? Huh. And the factory never produced such an ECU? Heavens. And your proof of this? <blink blink>"

 

[MustangMatt]

Short of you flashing the binaries yourself (huge liability) there isn't any easy way to confirm it's a stock tune. In addition, most aftermarket solutions offer multibank tunes that can be flipped with a switch.

The most realistic solution is to allow ECU modifications enter as "stock" and expect that people are going to modify their tune.

You could require everyone to use a datalogger like dashdaq and watch their spark timing, etc. but the process begins to get expensive and cumbersome fast.