young eng's 7

[macmet]

Hello everyone, I have a question that I have been meaning to ask for a while. I pick up points relating to it all the time in other threads but I'd like to start a seperate thread.

What mistakes do you see most often with young engineers? Is there a certain mindset most have that they have to get over to be successful, or perhaps a certain skill to work on?

I just started work and I've already noticed two problems I have to work on. First, I get flustered sometimes with having so many different things on the go. I'll start working on something then i'll check my email and get something related to another project and then all of a sudden i've started somthing new and left the first matter incomplete. Second, I have a hard time seperately personal and professional work. If I have a problem with something personal I find that often times it takes me a while to forget it and start work.

Are these common problems with younger eng's, or are these a matter more specific to me? I feel I do my job well, and feel as thought I'm making progress on these aspects but i still catch myself doing them often.

 

[wes616]

Prioritization is something that can't be taught. It comes with experience. And as a matter of fact, many (experienced) engineers don't understand it either. My suggestion regarding this is Communicate. Let your supervisor know what is on your plate. They can give you guidance regarding forming priorities in the intrest of your company.

Remember the old saying, "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergeny on my part."

As far as personal issues go... It's just business. Say that to yourself all the time. A guy at my work takes everthing so personally. It creates a real negative work environment. Work should be fun... I mean you will spend a majority of your life there.

Wes C.

 

[IRstuff]

We have one engineer who's particularly good about documenting EVERY assignment.

Sometimes our boss will want a priority task to be done and this engineer will whip out his notebook and ask which of his 50 assignments should be deferred.

TTFN

 

[GregLocock]

It sounds like you have several projects on the go at once. I hate that.

1) switch off your email. check it at the start of each day, and after lunch.

2) Have a separate folder for each project. Stack them on your desk. Once a week or once a day (depending on the timeframe of your projects) - decide which is the highest priority. If you have trouble prioritising, ask someone else, preferably your supervisor. If he won't decide, pick the one you are most interested in (grin, they'll eventually help you with prioritising). Put that one on top, second highest priority is the next one down, etc. Work on the top one until you get stuck. Then make sure you have set whatever wheels need to be set in motion to resolve that block, and pick up the next most important folder. You may well find you never get to the bottom of the pile. Make sure your supervisor knows this.

"What mistakes do you see most often with young engineers?"

Lack of self confidence, but also a tendency not to delve deeply into things.

A few other tips which the kids round here could usefully absorb:

Always double check your calculations before picking a fight. And try not to 'opinion shop'. Don't be afraid to change things, that is your job. Ask questions and pay attention to the answers. Think. Keep a notebook. If you are running late on a job you promised tell the customer as soon as you can.




Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ivymike]

I think that younger engineers often make the mistake of taking criticism of and/or feedback on their work as a personal attack. Nobody expects you to know everything straight out of school, but they do expect that when someone points out a mistake that you'll graciously learn from it and not throw a fit.

I also see people with a few years at the company finding their way into more and more important work, but feeling "sunburnt by the spotlight" when they, for example, get asked by upper management to explain the root causes of a particular problem that appeared, or when they're told that a certain situation is not acceptable. I've seen a few people break into tears during what I interpreted to be fairly benign discussions of serious problems (sure, they were turdstorms, but carry a toothbrush and keep smiling).

Then there's the mistake of not presenting yourself appropriately for the audience - if you get up in front of management in sloppy clothes and start using "teen slang" in your discussion of an issue, you will not make the right impression, you'll lose credibility, and you'll have a hard time getting your point across. Having the right answer is only a part of the equation - people have to be willing to accept it when it comes out of your mouth, too.

Remember the old saying, "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

Yeah, I'll never forget that one - a supplier representative said that to me during a phone conference to discuss our most urgent needs. We had several managerial types in the room who couldn't quite figure out how the comment could be construed as an acceptable response. All eyes were on me for a minute as people waited to see how I'd handle the remark - I told him that regardless of his opinions about how the situation was initiated, he and his company needed to do their part to improve it, and recommended that he start working on a plan to achieve the required results (bullet list of expectations), and get back to me with the plan the following morning (he'd been given the list two days earlier, and that meeting was supposed to be a discussion of his status and plans). Luckily for him, none of the manager types was upset enough to immediately turn it into a "lack of employment on his part," but several of them asked whether I'd like them to speak to someone about getting me a different representative. I took him aside the next time we met to explain to him just how well his reponse was received (didn't mention the rep change suggestions).

 

[ivymike]

oh - and never underestimate the ability of a good tie and crisp shirt to shield the wearer from criticism.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Like Greg, I chew on a problem until I hit a hard spot, pour some acid on the hard spot, and work on a different problem for a while.

I keep a chron file for every project, in which I record, as factually as possible, what happened and when, and who said what to whom. No opinion, no conjecture, no rumor; just facts observed first hand. Small words, short sentences, minimal reference to other documents. I usually copy associated emails or excerpts thereof into these chron files, delimited with meta- tags <email> and </email>, and annotated with date time sender and recipients. Similarly for phone conversations. The entire chronology of a project is thus recorded in one place.

I also keep a log file of what I've been working on, so I'll know which chron file to look in to find out what happened on a given day.

Lately, I've acquired a new habit; images. I've got a digital camera that can record hundreds of stills or an hour of video. I keep in in my pocket pretty much all the time. Anything interesting gets its picture taken. I also take pictures of associated tracking objects like tags; it's faster than writing notes, and provides context for the images.

For the past five years, I've been working on parts for yachts, ~175 projects per year, and after a while they sort of merged into a big white blur in my mind. The notes and photos helped keep them distinct.

I would be okay with having fewer projects at once, but never just one; I hate getting stuck and having nothing else to distract me.

I only wear ties to funerals and weddings, but ivymike is probably right about their ability to shed, er, stuff.












Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[kchayfie]

As a young engineer, I see other young engineers make 2 kinds of mistake that make me wince:

1) having the audacity to tell more experienced, well respected engineers that they are wrong
and
2) not having the confidence to tell more experienced, well respected engineers that they are wrong

Even now, after working with the same people for 3 years, I can't always tell if they have misunderstood the problem I've asked for their help on, or if their solution solves the problem in some way I can't quite understand. However, my 3 years experience has taught me how to ask for clarification without implying the senior engineer has no idea what he's doing!

 

[EngineerDave]

The biggest mistakes i made as a young engineer and still do at new jobs is underestimating the importance of the relationship with your supervisor.

Now you may say, engineerdave this is obvious, but let me tell you why this is a problem.

I've noticed a few types of people
1) The type that keep their supervisor informed of everything they are doing and ask advice on everything
2) The people that wish to work independently as much as possible without asking questions.

I fell into number 2. I hate asking questions, but at the root of it was I didn't want to look dumb. So I would spend twice as much time figuring stuff out for myself, but I still enjoyed that.

I'm suggesting another option, option #3.

3) You keep a good level of rapport and contact with your supervisor. This to me is critical.

 

[UcfSE]

As a young engineer I know my biggest problem is lack of confidence in my knowledge and abilities as an engineer. The biggest problem I see with other young, and more experienced, engineers is their lack of drive to be better than what they are. In a word, many are plain lazy. Knowledge and ability doesn't come to you, you must work for it.

 

[epoisses]

I think the two issues you mentioned are everybody's problem, not only young engineers. I have 67(!) things going on in parallel at the moment, it takes some getting used to and it takes rigourous priority management. I took a time management training a few years ago and it taught me quite a lot.

The main typical young engineer's problem IMHO is taking too many things for granted. Thinking that things are the way they are because there is a good reason. Thinking that people work a certain way because it has proven the best way. Thinking that a lab analysis result is an exact number cast in bronze, the result of an infallible infinitely accurate measure on a perfectly representative sample. Thinking that whatever Mr Experience says/does/ever tried is gospel because he is Mr (Mrs) Experience.

You should really filter and test every piece of information you obtain. Do your work like a journalist. One data point is no data point. Two data points is a suggestion. Three data points start to look like a solid basis to work on.

 

[MikeHalloran]

That's MISTER Experience, with emphasis and deference, thank you. ;-)

And no, you don't pay attention to me because I know how to do it right; you pay attention because I know a thousand ways to do it wrong, and maybe one way that's less wrong.

Accept this: Everyone is right, from their own perspective. You can almost always learn something useful by being polite, listening, and yes, filtering and testing and cross- checking. Pay particular attention to the burnouts, who once cared, and the bad attitudes, who still do.

Don't accept 'lore', or "we've always done it that way" at face value, but do put some serious effort into analyzing the related problem. You will almost always find that the recommended action is the correct one, even if the reasoning behind it is widely misunderstood.

When you go out in 'the shop', resist the urge to touch or pick up things that catch your eye. Always ask permission of the person doing the work, _before_ touching anything. You might inadvertently break something delicate, or disturb a setup that cost days of work. In a union shop, touching things without permission is grounds for a grievance. If it's a Machinists Union shop, the grievant will get an extra payday, and you'll get a black mark on your record, which will be brought to your attention at your next review. You won't be warned beforehand, and you won't get a chance to defend or explain yourself. HR just automatically writes a check and silently writes you up. You'll only find out about it if you happen to be nearby when the grievant receives the check and gives you a big smile.

Be cautious of people who smile at you for no apparent reason.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[epoisses]

Certainly, everyone is right from their own perspective, but... each time I made a multi million $ contribution to the chem plant with an intelligent idea (not that I am so smart but still it happened to me a few times), it was because I refused to believe the eternal "we tried that, it won't work" or the "we never did that, it won't work".

Having said that, you are also right when you say everyone including Mr Experience and including Joe the operator must be paid attention to, because there's a good chance they will give you valuable information.

 

[wes616]

The biggest problem I see with other young, and more experienced, engineers is their lack of drive to be better than what they are. In a word, many are plain lazy. Knowledge and ability doesn't come to you, you must work for it.

I see this all the time. I disagree with the "lazy" part though. IMHO, it's about not REALLY understanding what they were getting themselves into when it comes to this work.

It takes a SPECIAL type of personality to "make it" doing engineering. Thats why so many are not doing the work after a few years... run as fast as they can into management, or generally have grumpy and disgruntled attitudes.

I mean really... the biggest recruiting point for Engineering Colleges is... "hey you like science, and are good at math... why don't you be an engineer." Most of the time, this is a bad approach. It's like telling a kid who plays with matches that he should be a fireman when he grows up.

But hey, this again is for a different thread.

Sorry for going off topic...

Wes C.

 

[whyun]

Few observations on "some" young engineers in structural engineering:

1. blind faith in computers (forgetting GIGO)
2. fear of asking questions
3. overanalysing
4. being too precise with the calculations

Many things are learned on the job. A key to success for young engineers is not to be afraid of asking questions, absorb information (good practices and bad), don't take shortcuts out of plain laziness.

Experienced engineers also have "problems" of their own. That is a whole another topic. Experienced engineers should admit that even the most junior engineers can tach them a thing or two.

 

[MSU2000]

I would say that lack of confidence resulting in overanalyzing a problem is my situation too. It gets better once you see that your design works.

I'm in my 5th year now (1st on the current job) and finding my self still stumbling across those problems that all of you mentioned. I learned that being able to make a decision based on the fact is very important. I also learned this, to design part that are cheap and fast to make, and function great is a great goal but most of the time I need to sacrifice one of the three.

Don't let pressure of due date, etc effect the integrity of your design. I had many experiences that my manager was breathing down my neck every 2 hours asking me if the design is done, that time I panic and learned the hard way ( the design failed misserably in front of customer and I looked like a complete moron that day).

If you're not sure about your design find a way to test it and make your decision based off of it.

my 2 cent
MSU2000

 

[wes616]

Make a decision. A wrong decision is better than no decision at all.

Wes C.

 

[whyun]

as long as it doesn't cost the company too much money...

 

[wes616]

Don't ever be afraid of loosing your job. Guess what... You will loose it (laid off, fired, etc.) It happens. If you loose your job, you will find another.

Wes C.

 

[ajack1]

The one thing all young engineers lack is experience, they always have and they always will, everyone in the company was once in the position you are in. People feel flustered when they are unfamiliar with anything, be it making the sports team, taking a driving test, public speaking, it is perfectly normal.

My advice would be to see how others around you work and try and glean the best bits from as many as possible, what works for one may not work for another, but that makes neither right or wrong. Find out what works for you.

Never feel you know more than someone under you, a guy who works a certain machine for example will know far more about it than you, win the trust and hopefully friendship of as many people as possible.

Find out whom you can trust and “use” them but try to make it a two-way thing, something as simple as getting them a coffee when you go to the machine could help.

I strongly disagree with the idea of make a decision a wrong decision is better than no decision. Any fool can make a decision, the reason you are in the position you are in is because you are trusted to make the right one more times than not, use whatever is available to you to make that happen.

In what will seem like no time you will be the one young engineers are coming to for guidance, help them as others have helped you.

Most important of all, enjoy and take pride in what you do, it will take up a large piece of your life, enjoy the ride, good luck.