3 phase motor fixable? 2

[Al.]

Hi all,
Would anyone be willing to put me right on a few things? I have VERY little electrical knowledge by the way, so I apologise for my terminology...
So, I recently acquired a beautiful old drill press which I have mechanically restored. However the motor is tired.. it was completed rust-welded solid, the drill had lived under a lean-to, nonfunctional for at least 10 years. I've managed to separate it and give it a clean up but I'm sure it needs rewinding. I can see some broken strands, also there is currently a bolt driven into the windings.. also the connection leads are all useless

, the 4 that are still there anyway. The shaft has some pitting, is that a problem?

I'll see if I can get some photos up.
Thanks in advance.
A.

 

[Al.]

P.S. this is my first post here so if I've put this in the wrong place I apologise.. also for the chaotic post.. not so easy on my phone..

 

[cranky108]

Do you actually need the orignal motor?
Many small motors are cheaper to buy new. Larger motors can be used as a trade-in for a rewound motor (less waiting time), and the largest motors, because of the specility, would be rewound.
But with rust on it, it may, or may not be saved by just a rewind.

But being a drill press, the motors should be common. Maybe a little work on making a new (or rewound) motor mount to the existing holes.

Bu do be aware of the shaft size, as you might want to keep the pulley so it can work right with the press.

 

[edison123]

I refurbish motors in much worse shape from off-shore rigs. Yours needs a rewind (that winding is cooked), a new set of bearings, a new end cap bolts and some sand blasting of exteriors.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[jraef]

Only pursue it if absolute authenticity is paramount. You will likely spend 2x the cost of a replacement motor to have that rewound, because the labor to rewind a small motor like that is the same as it would be for a 50HP motor, and new motors are typically made using automation or in places where labor is cheap. A new motor will not look that different from the old one.

Many (if not most) motor shops in North America will not even bother with small motors any more. There was only one here in Northern California that would do it, but only because the owner had retired and wanted to “keep busy” so he would do small motors more as a hobby. When he passed away a few years ago, they sent out a notice that they would no longer work on motors under 50HP.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

 

[DAVIDSTECKER]

The motor shop I use only charges me about 1/5th the cost of a new motor for a re-wind and overhaul.
I'm a big fan of "Old Iron" machines so I'd go for the overhaul and keep it original.

 

[electricpete]

I'm with jraef, it depends in part on the size of the motor. The replace vs rewind decision really tilts towards replace for small motors, as long as a direct replacement is available. Or as cranky mentioned perhaps a close-enough replacement with mounting changes.

if op posts a nameplate, I imagine someone on the forum might be able to find replacement candidate / cost.



=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?

 

[itsmoked]

T'wer me I'd take that motor to your local motor shop and ask, "what do you suggest?".

If they say buy a new motor then buy a new motor. They can probably even point you in the right direction. If they give you details like "buy this model number from xxx" hand them $20 for their time.

They could well say, "we have one that will work right here".

Or, they might offer to rewind it for a reasonable price if business is slow or they feel generous.

It all depends on your local motor shop. I would expect completely different responses from every shop as it depends on circumstances there at the very moment you walk in.

At our motor shop my buddy traded them 7 questionable motors <1hp for a rewound 5hp single phase motor that has run his air compressor now for 25 years.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[edison123]

@Al.

lps for posting the before and after pics and for doing a great refurbishment job with that nice bench drill. I am still attached to my first refurbished bench drill I bought as a scrap more than 30 years back.

As Keith says, take the motor to a good repair shop to see if it is worth repairing (I would say yes) or to scrap it.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[Al.]

Thanks for the responses everyone.
I would be quite happy with a new motor but the mounting is indeed specific to the drill, the motor end cap is the swing mechanism to tension the belt.. I don't seem to have a picture of that but I'll get one up asap.
Also I'm in Italy.. I've had no luck so far finding a suitable replacement online, it's a 2 speed motor by the way. I've emailed felisatti (the manufacturer) but have received no response yet. I'm also trying to find something resembling a motor shop.. I know someone who knows a guy.. but he's on holiday.

 

[Al.]

In the event that I can't get it fixed and don't find a suitable replacement, I am considering having a go at rewinding it myself.. I've watched a couple of videos of people doing it (I can imagine you all raising eyebrows) the physical side of it doesn't look that difficult, a bit fiddly but doable. I also have a vacuum chamber I made for working with resin so I could get the varnish in properly I think. But lacking any real knowledge my confidence of doing everything right is not high. But I suppose at that stage I've not much to loose, apart from the cost of materials. So, any thoughts on if a novice having a go at rewinding is a daft idea?

 

[itsmoked]

(I can imagine you all raising eyebrows)

Confirmed.

There are a lot of special tricks, tools, and processes, that probably cut the job down to 3rd of what it would be in a motor shop without those things. Then add in the noob in-my-garage factor.. It will probably take you a month with a 50% success rate. Too steep for me. (No.. waaaaaay too steep for me)

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[Gr8blu]

AI: Judging by the machine rating, your random wound stator will take something less than 8 kg of copper. The downside is that is you go out to buy the material yourself, you're looking at a minimum order of something like 200 kg - which would run you almost the price of a modern Felisatti press, by the way. There are a lot of things that go into a stator winding - it isn't just the copper for the conductors, it's also the insulating materials that AREN'T part of the conductor proper. Figuring out what the original winding was in terms of number of turns, turn cross-section, span (where the coil sits), overall length, how to bend the end region to minimize electrical and mechanical stresses ... not a job for the faint of heart, by any means.

You should be able to find two-speed motors out there in this size fairly easily - maybe not in your home town, but not all that far away either. This is particularly true if you're in the northern Italian industrial belt. You should also be able to find someone who builds/repairs such machines with relative ease as well. And walking in with your motor in hand and asking may give you the best results - I know it works for the shop where I now hang my hat. And yes, as a previous poster mentioned - what you'll get for an answer does vary from time to time with the repair shop loading and the relative skill level of the employees. (You might even find that one of the shop winders might not do it at the shop, but is willing to give it a go in his/her home workshop.)

Great job on the press refurbishment to date - keep up the good work!

Converting energy to motion for more than half a century

 

[electricpete]

Translating the nameplate into English to the best of my ability
[ul]
[li]Felisatti [brand] General Utensil[/li]
[li]3-phase asynchronous [induction] motor[/li]
[li]Type 323 / R, Series 103[/li]
[li]HP 0.8 / 1.5; Speed 750 / 1500[/li]
[li]Voltage: 380; Hz: 50[/li]
[li]Connected voltage: 380[/li]
[/ul]

Felisatti is apparently a tool manufacturer, probably not a motor manufacturer.
The real motor manufacturer is disguised.
No hint of replacement parts in the Felisatti catalog

323 / R is probably a frame size (for mechanical interchangeability).
I work with NEMA so not too familiar with that.
I can't quite decode it from here other than 323mm is probably the "H" dimension from feet mounting surface to shaft centerline.

> the mounting is indeed specific to the drill, the motor end cap is the swing mechanism to tension the belt.. I don't seem to have a picture of that but I'll get one up asap.

So the whole motor moves for purposes of adjusting belt tension? (in which case slots rather than holes for mounting bolts might perform similar function?). Or just a portion moves somehow. I guess photos will help understand that more.

=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?

 

[zlatkodo]

Hi, Al,
It is repairable ( cleaning, sand blasting, rewinding, painting) but don't try to do it yourself.
It would be a waste of time and copper.
That is the 3-phase, two-speed motor and it's very likely you'll won't be able to record and/or repeat the winding properly.

Motor Repair and Winding Design

 

[edison123]

Mechanical refurbishment and electrical motor refurbishment are two vastly different DIY projects, youtube or not.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[Al.]

Once again, thanks for the replies everyone, I really appreciate the input.
Yes, exactly electricpete. The mounting plate has a pin one end and slot the other, the whole motor moves. Photo coming today.

Well your collective opinions on a DIY rewind attempt are clear enough I think you've successfully put me off the idea for now, so thank you for saving me the money and headache. I will be simultaneously trying to find somewhere to get it repaired and looking for a potentially suitable replacement.

 

[waross]

And this is a two speed motor,

also the connection leads are all useless

Multiply the difficulty compared to a single speed motor by 2 or 4 or more.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Al.]

 

[edison123]

Yeah, you are not going to be able to find exact replacement for that nicely cast part.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in