9 month Technician Certificate + 8 years = Engineer???

[ChipTech]

I am looking for peoples opinion on this.

Do you think a person who has a 9 month certificate as an Electronics Technician should be introducing themselves as an engineer even if they've had 8 plus years experience in doing design work?

I work with someone who has Design Engineer on their business card, calls himself the senior design engineer when dealing with clients and unfortunately for the rest of us, he does most of the electronics engineering work.

He does know alot of stuff about what we design, but when I question anything he does it turns into crapshow so I've learned to just keep quiet and let him fumble through compliance and design issues with his trial and band-aid approach.

Not looking to change anything, just wanting opinions.

 

[IRstuff]

That would seem to be up to the company and manager he works for. Strictly speaking, though, the answer in today's environment is NO, particularly for design activities that ultimately affect public safety.

There rate, talented individuals without degrees that can do, and have the werewithal to do, engineering, and likewise, untalented individuals with degrees that stink at it. Nonetheless, in today's environment, there is an expectation of a accredited degree in engineering for someone to be called an engineer.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[mcgyvr]

Let's see..
go to school and read books for 4 years with virtually no hands on real world experience and pay $80K-100K+...=you are an engineer.
Or get a library card and read the same books for free and have 8 years of real world hands on experience...=a much better engineer IMO.
A degree is just a piece of paper and a title is just a made up name. Most companies require a degree for legal purposes or just to prove you can learn.

Where I work the "cad drafters" can typically move up to become "product designers" with the right amount of experience but will never be titled as an engineer without the hole in their pocket and a piece of paper.

My garbage collector is also now a sanitation engineer.

 

[ScottyUK]

Over here in the UK he could call himself almost anything he wants because engineering is barely regulated. He can't use the title Chartered Engineer unless he either: has a recognised degree plus a number of years in training; passes the Engineering Council exams plus a number of years in training, or has a much larger number of years of qualifying experience in lieu. The passage of time alone doesn't necessarily count as qualifying experience, so it depends on what he's been doing for that eight years.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Okay, Will hunting ;-)

There's a lot to be said for a structured learning environment like the classroom... not many can learn the breadth/depth required to make a good general engineer on their own, but they do exist. I may never use 80% of my classwork experience in the majority of my day-to-day practice, but it makes me a well-rounded engineer that can jump to various topics as necessary. Nitch engineers do particularly well being self-taught as they study exactly what they need over long periods of time. But I also don't consider someone fresh out of college any better off without the practical experience. It just depend son what the position calls for...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[mcgyvr]

Didn't even think about Good Will Hunting when I wrote that but he sure does have a valid point... Great movie too.

 

[ChipTech]

Thanks for the responses, I find them very intriguing.

I'm what's called a Technologist in BC, Canada(Electronics Engineering Technologist). It is a 3 year program with CO-OP and very heavy on the mathematics and design. I have worked in the field for about 11 years now under various engineers and almost engineers. I have also done alot of design work in RF, high speed digital, audio.... etc. I am an expert in Solidworks and I would say advanced level in PCB layout.

With all that, I would not have the balls to call myself an engineer. Don't know why, I just can't.

But this person I work with boasts about only having technician certificate and calling himself an engineer. I have watched the work and he's not dumb, but it still seems like he's repeating techniques shown to him years ago by the engineers that use to work here. Especially when it comes to troubleshooting for compliance of the product (FCC, IC, etc). Instead of narrowing down the issue and doing some circuit analysis he will "try" changing the values of inductors or ferrites as one example. I am yet to see any serious mathematics from anyone in this company.

I guess it's my issue, that I can't work as a technologist for an engineer unless they have their education.

 

[oldfieldguy]

I don't call myself an engineer. I don't have the "official" diploma. I worked for a company that called me a "senior field engineer" because that was the title that went with the pay I demanded. I never used it myself because I worked in the shadow of some giants in the electrical engineering field.

I'm usually quite happy to be the guy that people come to with their questions on how things need to work or why they don't work. It took a bunch of years of actually doing things and paying attention and taking time to educate myself, often side by side with the "real" engineer whom I was called to help.

I can understand your frustration, though.

old field guy

 

[dpc]

The short answer, at least in the US is no, that's not acceptable and is potentially illegal in some circumstances. As others have mentioned, as a practical matter, it depends on the industry in question.

I worked with someone without a P.E or engineering degree who put "Engineer" in his title on his business cards for a long time. One day he got a terse letter from the state engineering board asking for an explanation and agreed to remove "Engineer".

None of this has much to do with the person's actual qualifications or value, of course.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Moving past the academic/professional definition, to me an "engineer" is someone who can make the logical leaps necessary to solve a unique problem using the tools he has learned via education and/or experience. Throwing random components at a problem without understanding what they actually do, changing component values based solely upon a well-known equation (e.g., op-amp gain calcs), even being able to solve difficult mathematical problems... these do not make engineers (though in the last case it may make a very smart person).

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[biff44]

Had a friend who was very creative and able to design all sorts of things. He never got his degree, but had just a ton of varied experience. He ended his career as a Principal Engineer at Raytheon, a company that takes its engineering credentials very seriously. So, I would not say that a degree is a qualification for being called an "engineer". I think your ability to design or improve products is more important.

http://www.MaguffinMicrowave.com

Maguffin Microwave wireless design consulting

 

[IRstuff]

Most of the people like that are promoted through the ranks, but were never directly hired into their final positions. We had a similar situation even 25 years ago where we wanted to hire an extremely good electronics circuit whiz who had no degree, but couldn't get our single HR wienie to sign up for that, particularly since our job opening stipulated a minimum of a BSEE.

A slightly similar situation occured with a Dean of Admissions at MIT??, who would have been OK when she was first hired into a lower position that had no requirement for a degree, but it turned out that she had lied about having a degree, and they wound up firing her.


TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[ScottyUK]

The degree 'requirement' is just a simple means of applying a coarse screen. I know people with degrees who will never have 'the knack', and people without degrees who have it in abundance. There are always exceptions to any general rule, but when sifting through job applications by the hundred or by the thousand it is a reasonable way of achieving a rough cut. The same reasoning applies for more senior positions where instead of a degree the criteria for the rough cut is whether the applicant is a Chartered Engineer (or P.E.) or not. Neither a degree nor C.Eng makes someone a good engineer, it just ensures that if you are good that you also likely to make it past the coarse screen to get an interview.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[DanijelM]

I believe that might be a legal issue in today’s world.
All my colleagues are Instrument or Electrical Engineers.
I have BS in Electrical Engineering Technology and MS in Technology and I am Instrument Specialist. On my business card it says Instrument Specialist. Do we have a school to become instrument engineers, I am not aware of one.
I guess depends on the company and location.