A crack in a MAIN BEAM under a house with a hairline crack in it - Is that concerning ? 4

[bdn2004]

It's been identified that the main beam under a single story home that runs the length of the house has a hair line crack in it in the crawlspace. The crawlspace has a concrete floor. The main beam is 3 - 2 x 10s sandwiched together with 1/2" x 8" carriage bolts every three feet. The spans are about 9'-6" between piers. (Sorry about the bright flash at the bottom). We've measured a deflection of about 3/16". I hardly see any crack, and if anything it's just a hairline crack.

1. Is this crack something to concern with? When is a crack something to concern with ?
2. To shore it up and prevent it from deflecting any more we are proposing adding 2 floor jacks in between the piers. And sit each floor jack on top of a 2'x 2'x 3/4" piece of plywood.
3. Also proposing to add another 2 x 10 on one side of the main beam. What percentage extra strength would this add?

 

[PEinc]

Is just one of the three boards in the beam cracked? The crack looks no worse than the knot hole(?) at the bottom of the front board and slightly to the left. If you are concerned, post up the triple board beam at the crack location.

http://www.PeirceEngineering.com

 

[bdn2004]

The crack I’m talking about I don’t know if you can make it out in the picture.It runs horizontal the length of the board. I’m not concerned about it but this is a result of a dreaded home inspection. Now the Buyer is concerned.

 

[jimstructures]

You need to mark up the picture you previously included because I can't see any crack running horizontaly, only the vertical crack next to the knot on the top edge. Maybe the eyes are getting so bad that I can't see a crack anymore.

Jim

 

[LittleInch]

If it's so hairline you can't see it in your photo then I can't see it being relevant.

Usually the issue is more about the "feel" as you walk across the floor. Does it move or "float"?

Does it pass the Fat Guy Test?

Then a few more piers if you have an issue.

But if you're selling you will need a structural engineer to sign this off I think not just some random people off the internet, regardless of how good they are...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[rb1957]

that shadow is quite confusing ... to me at least.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[phamENG]

I don't see a horizontal crack, either. I would be concerned about jacking it up at the location of the vertical crack - you'd reverse the moment at that location and put tension right where the beam can't handle it.

Best bet would be to have a structural engineer put their eyes on it. I get calls for those all the time. It's a quick trip, assessment, and letter. It's not cheap, but it won't break the bank either.

 

[Enable]

If you zoom in the horizontal crack appears to run near the center of the beam in middle of the picture up to the compression zone on the right hand side. To be honest I would be more concerned about the crack at the top of the beam that seems to propagate about 1/3rd into the depth of the beam. Though at least it's on the compression side. Either case I wouldn't be too worried.

Concur with phamEng: this is very much likely nothing but should someone want to spend $1,200 for peace of mind they need to call in a local structural engineer to assess.

Concur with LittleInch: Completely underutilized assessment technique of existing structures. Just walk around and observe! They talk to you. They will tell you what is normal and abnormal given the service conditions experienced. Also...the Fat Guy Test is a real thing. I was once designing a walkway on the middle of a roof. Naturally one would think no need for guard loading on the railings (in the center away from the edge and not elevated). They were mostly just handrails / to keep people from wandering. My employer reviews what I did and immediately asks: what if a fat guy stumbles into this with his tools and knocks it over? Our client gets sued? Beef up the f-ing railings.

 

[bdn2004]

Thanks for the tips here. This house is 70 years old. There's nothing squeaking or creaking or bending or whatever that's noticeable to anyone on the main floor. We've got the house sold, now we get the home inspection report and the Buyer gets all in a tizzy about this supposed issue the inspector found.

Then he gets an estimate to have it fixed. His estimate recommends sawing out the concrete in two places between the existing peers on the concrete crawlspace floor, putting in two new piers and sitting jacks on them. And adding 2 - 2 x 10's, one on each side of the existing the entire length of the house. And since the crawlspace will be too difficult to get all this stuff down there and work....a backhoe has to be used to dig out the side of the house, bust through the foundation wall and then replace.....$15,000.

All for something that no one has ever complained about. No creaking, no squeaking no nothing.
To me, it's absurd to have to mess with this. But you know but what do you do?

I like the structural engineer idea. But no offense to you guys at all...but "to be on the safe side" seems to be the motto with all engineers understandably. I just want to get the house sold and make reasonable accommodations to him to so he's assured that he isn't faced with a huge bill in the next decade.

 

[jayrod12]

If a competent engineer is hired, and the situation on site is as you describe and show in the picture, then I wouldn't expect anything to be required. Wood splits and checks all the time, does not always mean the wood is failing.

Sometimes you get knowledgeable home inspectors, othertimes you don't. Generally I've found the ones that try to specify repairs as part of their reports are actually the worst ones. The knowledgeable and good home inspectors will flag things as a potential issue but then recommend to get the appropriate professional involved to determine the required course of action.

 

[Enable]

We can't say unequivocally that there is no major issue with the beam as it sits because

a) we only have a small photo and a brief description of what is going on; and
b) there is always a possibility of something, no matter how remote, and we would not be doing our profession a service by talking with certainty when there cannot possibly be.

That said, it is very unlikely that there is any substantial issue here. I would suspect if you retain a structural engineer their repair, if any, would involve a Simpson strong-tie reinforcement plate. Something like this perhaps longer depending on length of crack.

Making an opening through the foundation wall to sister the beam seems utterly ridiculous based on what we have seen in this thread. Sounds more like someone is trying to take the worst case so they can leverage that to negotiate a lower price.

 

[Rabbit12]

Who prepared the estimate? Is it an engineered fix or some contractor came up with this fix?

I'm with everyone here this is likely a non-issue. If you can find an engineer to look at it and report is a non-issue that's pry your best bet.

 

[PEinc]

I can't imagine this invisible crack in one board of a three board beam would be a deal breaker. Tell the buyer you are not going to fix it, or, to be nice, cut the price $500. Take it or leave it.

http://www.PeirceEngineering.com

 

[JoshPlumSE]

It's stuff like this that can scare off potential buyers. Almost certainly not a structural problem. Wood dries over time and these sorts of cracks appear. Though we call them checks.

Even if it is a "structural defect", we could probably run numbers to see how overstress a double 2x10 is to the existing load. If it is significantly overstressed then it should be cheap to "repair" per Enable's suggestion.

The buyers suggestion for repair sounds like he talked to a contractor (or his inspector?) who doesn't have any engineering knowledge.

Unfortunately, just because something isn't a real problem doesn't mean it's not a PERCEIVED problem.

 

[kwinner]

I quit stressing over issues like this long ago. There are other potential structural deficiencies that I have seen over the years that keep me up at night, and I will not let a not let a single-story, lightly loaded floor beam be a concern. What does a real failure look like in this case?

Simply, inform the homeowner or potential buyer of what you have observed, let them know the risks and potential repairs and let them make the decision as to what might be a good fix. A common sense conversation can go a long way. "What would I do if this were my house?" "Wait until an actual issue arises and fix it then if it ever arises..."

 

[rb1957]

I get that it doesn't seem to be a real problem (with our limited understanding).

Instead of $15k to fix a "non-problem", could sistering help ? maybe glue the splice and a few screws ?

But I understand the buyer being concerned. Inspectors tend to find problems (to justify their existence ? to create work for their buddies ??). Talking to them that this isn't the problem it seems isn't going to help. If the sale falls through, maybe paint this beam ? although that should make it look worse ... "what are you hiding ?"

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[kwinner]

Yes, sistering on additional framing in a reasonable way would help eliminate any cause for concern, and that would be my recommendation if this were a concern. That should be possible to do without any demo or excavation. They got somebody down there to take the photo, and the work required is not that intensive. That 15K estimate is insane, and would potentially create more issues than are even existing. I am baffled that someone even gave that estimate.

Another simple solution would be to add a post and pier block at midspan of the "damaged" beam. Structurally, just look at the beam as two stacked beams and it should check out.
Should cost about $100.

 

[Rabbit12]

The problem is if he tells the buyer to take it our leave it by law I believe he will have to disclose this to the next potential buyer. I think you need to hire an engineer to take a look. If he says all is well it's easier to sell that to the next buyer.

I'm not a huge fan of home inspectors. I hired a guy to inspect a home I was buying. He came up with a list of things. I haggled with the seller over some and accepted others. Three years later I went to sell the house. I had fixed all the issues in the initial inspection. I recommended the same guy come take a look since he has just been there. The guy found a crap ton more stuff including a couple things that were there the first time and ended up being costly to fix.

 

[BAretired]

Checking is normal for wood framing. Strength is unaffected by minor checking. Repair will not increase strength and, in this case, is not warranted.

Below is an enlarged view of the crack in question. It is difficult to see the crack.

BA

 

[kwinner]

I don't think it is a take it or leave it situation. It is a get an engineer to assess it and provide their recommendation as to how to proceed. If they come back with recommendations for 15k of repairs, get another engineer to assess it. Don't just ignore it, but also don't feel backed into a corner by this estimate which is either "over-engineered" or "not engineered".