ABS vacuum rating 2

[Unotec]

I need to find out the pressure ratings for ABS piping.

I tried the ABS web page and no luck. Googled it and no luck either.

Basically, I have 3", sched40 ABS piping for a vacuum application. I need to know how much vacuum this pipe can handle.

Full vacuum maybe?

Does anyone know where I can find the answer?

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[BigInch]

This says (from) "full" vacuum to 150 psi.

http://www.belco-mfg.com/pipe&duct.htm?count=opSubCat&opNum=8

Might give them a call to see what they're really talking about.


**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Unotec]

Yep, that's FRP pipe (fiberglass reinforced plastic), which is the exact same we use in our disposal well lines (for the ones in vacuum, though).

The one I am looking specs for is the ABS, Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene (I can barely pronounce it).

These two would not be the same, would they?

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[BigInch]

Crap. Prob not. Google said ABS, then I didn't notice this says FRP. Sorry.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[JLSeagull]

ABS piping can be FRP piping. ;-)

This Guide specifies the ABS requirements for the certification of offshore pipes and piping components that are made of fiber reinforced plastics (FRP).
GUIDE FOR CERTIFICATION OF FRP HYDROCARBON PRODUCTION PIPING
SYSTEMS MAY 2005
American Bureau of Shipping

 

[Unotec]

"American Bureau of Shipping", "Anti-lock Braking System", "Australian Bureau of Statistics" etc... Blasted TLA's (three letter acronyms). Can't you english speakers use actual words!?! rant-over

JLSeagull, what do you mean that ABS can be FRP? Are you referring to an ABS/FRP meaning that the ABS is reinforced with fiberglass?

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[Unotec]

Ok, so far I narrowed that I need to see ASTM F628-08. But I refuse to pay to buy it for a one time use.
Does anybody has a copy of a table where I can see pressure ratings of different diameters vs. temperature?
I am looking to see what the max vacuum for a 3" sched 40 ABS pipe is.

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[BigInch]

ABS isn't FRP, at least as far as I know. ABS is solid on the outside surface, but foamy on the inside.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[stanier]

Use Timoshenko and establish the buckling criteria. The modulus of elasticity & dimensions of the pipe should come from the manufacturer or the standard you are using.

The vacuum condition that can be met depends upon whether it is aboveground or below ground. For the latter the soil and embedment contribute to keeping the pipe round and hence it is able to withstand high external pressures.

If above ground then the contribution rom the soil is ignore.

ABS piping to AS 3518 is made by Eurapipe in Australia & Malaysia. This ABS is different grade to that using ASTM materials. however the technical manual from this website from below will serve you needs.

http://www.tycoflowcontrol.com.au/tycowater/plastic_pipeline_systems

 

[btrueblood]

FWIW,

I've used 3" and 4" foam-core ABS DWV pipe (and associated fittings of ABS and/or PVC in Sch. 10, 40, 80) for vacuum system, up to ~28 inHg, without ever having seen the pipe or fittings collapse. All at essentially room temp., perhaps 80 deg. F max.

But, as far as a specification that gives rating for vacuum, I have not seen such. ABS foam core pipe is intended to be low-pressure Drain/Waste/Vent conduit, having no rated pressure. I would think, given the use as drain pipe, it should be able to handle a high vacuum (i.e. when siphoning occurs)...

Obviously, you could calculate the collapse pressure, but it would be tricky to do so with the foam core pipe due to the difficulty involved in estimating/measuring the effective modulus of the foam, and not sure how repeatable the section modulus would be.

Sticking a chunk of ABS pipe, capped, into a larger piece of (say) 6" steel pipe, and doing a hydrostatic crush test (filling/pressurizing the 6" pipe) on the 4" pipe section would be a fairly simple test, and would tell you what kind of margins you might have.

 

[BigInch]

Rather than doing a crushing hydrotest, why not just get about 50 ft of capped pipe, fill with water, stand vertical and open a hole at the bottom to see if it collapses above 35'?

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Unotec]

Since we had fuel oils in the equation and ABS is not too fond of those, we decided on PVC piping.

Big Inch, I like your idea and I am sure the guys at the plant will enjoy doing it.

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[BigInch]

Be sure to tell me if it collapses progressively all the way down as the water makes its way out.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Unotec]

I think what I am going to do, as 30 ft of pipe might prove a little challenging, is to attach a section of it to the vac truck's hose and start sucking.

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[BigInch]

Presumedly with the truck pump.

I bet 10 to 1 it doesn't collapse.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Unotec]

These are the types of trucks:

http://www.vactor.com/pdf/VacuumSafetyP702.pdf

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[btrueblood]

"Rather than doing a crushing hydrotest, why not just get about 50 ft of capped pipe, fill with water, stand vertical and open a hole at the bottom to see if it collapses above 35'? "

But then you won't have any idea how much margin you might have.

I would agree, at 10:1 or any odds you want, that it won't collapse, at any length, at up to 32 inHg.

 

[Montemayor]

Unotec:

The acronym "FRP" stands for Fiberglass Reinforced Pipe. Acrylobutylnitrile (ABS) pipe is certainly NOT AN FRP. ABS pipe is (& was) developed specifically for plumbing use - primarily in drain, waste, & vent (DWV) applications. It can be used for a lot of other applications. I've even used it in irrigation and chemical drains.

In order to find the vacuum rating(s) for this pipe, I suggest you contact or call:

Plastic Pipe and Fittings Association
800 Roosevelt Road
Building C, Suite 312
Glen Ellyn, Illinois 60137
Phone: (630) 858-6540
Fax: (630) 790-3095

They have a website, but the registration part that allows you to access their engineering literature is not working.

It is common to use ABS pipe on a vacuum pump or a vacuum lift in evacuating sumps and septic tanks. In such applications, it is certainly not a possibility to produce a "full vacuum" (-760 mm mercury column). Full vacuum takes a special vacuum pump. What I believe you are referring to is drawing a partial vacuum - which unfortunately most engineers label as a vacuum and assume this is a full vacuum. A full vacuum can be drawn in a test - exactly as Big Inch specifys: by filling a vertial, capped, 35+ foot-long ABS pipe section 100% full with water and draining the bottom. You will draw a perfect vacuum - or so close, it's not worth measuring.

I don't believe a conventional 3" ABS pipe will withstand a full vacuum - but it will withstand a partial vacuum (which may be all you need). How much of a partial vacuum? Call the PPFA and find out.

 

[BigInch]

Are you taking my bet? Standard wall, by the way, right? I hope they have standard walls.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[786392]

Dear Montemayor/BigInch

ABS I understand always stands for a 'Co-Polymerized plastic product of Acrylonitrile,Butadiene and Styrene.The Tyco pdf also confirms the same.

As such definitely it is not a FRP indeed!


Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)