Alaska Airlines flight forced to make an emergency landing... 82

[TugboatEng]

Alaskan just has another door open during a flight. It was a cargo door that opened but did not depart the aircraft.

https://nypost.com/2024/03/08/lifes...t-carrying-pets-arrives-with-cargo-door-open/

 

[dik]

It seems the common denominator is Boeing.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

United has two emergencies at my local airport this week. They lost a wheel from a 777 and had a hydraulic failure on a 320.

I hear Spirits builds airframes for Boeing and Airbus...

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The wheel dropping off is in a different league. But also linked to airline


The rest of it is just run of the mill. Linked to the airline. Not the aircraft type.

It's just every event is currently headline news.

Hydraulics have 2 main back up methods and another 2-3 emergency.

The brakes are powered by them and spoilers so it makes a performance difference. So you have to declare them.

Lost count the number of times I dumped the hydraulic system over Wales on the Jetstream.

 

[waross]

Memo to Boeing, cc Alaskan

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...iness-directives-the-boeing-company-airplanes

Another AD about to be released by the looks of it.

 

[hokie66]

I wonder what caused this.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03...ests-assistance-at-auckland-airport/103574168

 

[LittleInch]

The rumour is total electrical failure for 45 seconds then when it came back there was a large elevator movement.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[dik]

Coincidence?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Sym P. le]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703[/URL]]In the days before his death, he had been giving evidence in a whistleblower lawsuit against the company.

He had been due to undergo further questioning on Saturday. When he did not appear, enquiries were made at his hotel.

He was subsequently found dead in his truck in the hotel car park.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Just some back ground.

Old aircraft they used simple failure criteria for control disconnect. A servo pulls to many amps and it would trip and dump everything on the pilot. And it could be 20lb rotation out of trip if it was a Jetstream. For the 5 Jetstream 31/32 in Europe with an autopilot. The US j31/32 they allowed a none bae certified yaw damper.

The yaw damper was a analogue double integral control unit off the left hand direction gyro. And if someone messed with the compass flux valve selection you could get 10 plus degrees instantaneous heading changes which triggered a collosal rudder kick.

Electrics you were on your own sorting out the bus configurations to get things back.

But the engines wouldn't miss a beat and the primary instruments apart from the horizon no change apart from the oscillator on the altimeter and vsi.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Q400 systems had more complex interactions with automatic fault isolation. Electric faults it would be 30 seconds up to 3 mins of chaos. The auto pilot would sometimes kick out sometimes stay in.

The big gotcha was not spotting a yellow caution bus failure. At the end of the three minutes you would be left with a complete panels worth of red and yellows with no clue what the base issue was. If you went red priorities following the qrh you would end up shutting an engine down. If you spotted the bus failure or just chanced your luck using experience in the SIM and went for the bus card one switch and you would get everything back.

 

[3DDave]

We need a Q400 thread. Maybe another for Jetstream.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

A220 flybywire

Fully automatic electrical isolation. Flight control redundance etc etc.

Haven't seen any issues in real life in 2500 hours with either system.

Type rating covers all systems then there is a 3 years cycle through them winter summer conditions.

The scenario triggered and those of us with an older type experience. Tripped the automatics out and sat and watched it doing it's thing. Flight director went a bit funny for a while so just used the real horizon and back up artificial horizon. Eventually it finished.

They gave us then a bit of a unreliable instrument issue we landed and that was it. Pretty much a none event for a sim.

Examiner afterwards said you ruined that exercise for the FO. None of the system issues occured because none of them were online. It was meant to eventually result in taking the automatics out.

And you lot have the muscle skills to fly for hours
Manually without thinking about it. They don't.

I suspect this case they left the automatics in to the hard recovery to the profile. Or it was fms driven.

Modern planes the ride quality and fuel efficiency goes to hell with a pilot manually flying them. So we are encouraged not to. Plus it increases workload.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I use them as examples because I have full documentation on them plus experience.

They are also pretty good examples of the philosophy change over the decades.

And why using 1960's human response is doomed to failure in this day and age to stop fatalities.

 

[3DDave]

None lost a door due to a factory floor error.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Thankfully no doors lost.

Pretty unique CV's for that experience base.

 

[3DDave]

This thread is "Alaska Airlines flight forced to make an emergency landing... " dealing with the loss of a door.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

But it's all based round the same ethics and accountability problems.

They have stated now there is no paperwork on the removal of the door or the reworking of the rivets it was removed to work on.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

https://fortune.com/2024/03/12/crim...plug-completely-wrong-iata-head-willie-walsh/

I agree completely that the legal process does nothing to aid better safety.

The root cause needs understood and prevent it occurring again.

Root cause to me is financial types overiding Engineering forcing them to use extremely dubious compromises to and in appropriate assumptions to drive the Engineering.

I am pretty sure it's the same with the production.

Kpi linked to quality and excellence instead of accountants bonuses.