Are engineers timid? 18

[lacajun]

During a conversation with a salesman, he stated that engineers are uncomfortable cold calling companies or people. If you gave one an assignment to call fifteen companies, institutions, people, he would be very uncomfortable doing it. He believes the task would not get done.

All thoughts and humor are welcome.

 

[SomptingGuy]

I've always hated cold-calling, either on the phone or in person.

What I do like is being the technical expert to back-up the front-man. Those meetings are normally really good and fun.

- Steve

LinkedIn

 

[tygerdawg]

Two quick stories, occurring before & after my time at "Company X".

#1: During CompanyX tenure.
Asked to go with my friend the SalesGuy on a road trip.

Sitting at customer table, SalesGuy is doing his ADHD-addled "I'm the center of attention" clown act. Customer is overworked engineer, getting irritated at "another salesman". Finally I put my hand up in SalesGuy's face and say "Tom, SHUT UP, and let the man talk, and LISTEN. Now, CustomerGuy, let me tell you. I'm just the dumb engineer, not the sales guy, so I will tell you the truth about whether our product is good for your application or not. So tell me what you need." CustomerGuy gushed a sigh of relief.
We got the sale. SalesGuy & I were very successful after that and became great friends.

#2: After CompanyX tenure.
CompanyX forced to lay me off due to collapse of my particular industry. I decide to have a try at engineering consulting business. Unfortunately my business started 6 weeks before the 9-11 Event, which initiated a 3-year deep recession.

My sister-the-Psychologist gives me a skills test and says my worst skill is "cold calling", is a fear of rejection. In her wisdom, she says "it doesn't mean you can't do it, but that you must work harder at it."

My business failed on first attempt. I go on unemployment and interview CompanyZ. EngineeringMgrGuy tells me he's very interested and will contact me in 3-weeks (never did...boo hoo hoo rejected again). I get a referral for a consulting gig which helps me survice the Recession. Emboldened after 1st gig is done, I decide to cold call EngineeringMgrGuy and ask for some work. It turns out the reason he never responded is that HE was laid off shortly after my interview. I decide to call back on cold call to seek work (I knew that there was opportunities there). I called repeatedly, got the automated attendant, and waded through a dozen or so employee directory names until I got a live person. I explained my purpose and goal, and got transferred to another party. After the SEVENTH transfer I was speaking with the President of the company. He transferred me to NewEngineeringMgrGuy and he invited me in the next morning. This meeting resulted in a very lucrative contract.

Lessons learned:
1. Cold calling is hard to do for many engineers, but can be done.
2. Most times it is done badly and is a waste of time.
3. With a strategic approach it can be useful.
4. There is work under every bush if we're willing to look hard enough for it.

That "fear of rejection" thing...I don't have it any more. I'm now a fearless cold caller and Gatekeeper-avoider.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Cold-calling needs to be targeted, at least to some degree. Care for an example of cold-calling stupidity?

I work for an international company, so we have contracts with major headhunters and staffing firms. All staffing goes through HR, and we only hire from the firms we have contracts with. As an engineer, management or not, I do not have the ability to go outside of the HR boundaries to find someone to work for me.

So imagine my surprise when I receive a call from a "saleswoman" from one of the companies we contract with. She knows the rules, she knows I'm unable to make such a decision, and knows the only thing within my power is to transfer her back to the switchboard and on to HR... yet she tries to weasel info out of me. Do I need anyone right now, do I think I'll need someone with a particular talent in the coming weeks/months, etc. After explaining twice that the conversation was inappropriate and she needed to speak to HR, I started weaseling for her info... name, position, time with the company, etc. After I hung up, I spoke with HR and suggested we reconsider keeping her company on contract as they were wasting my valuable time.

If anything, her cold call didn't just annoy me, it potentially hurt her company and may cost them a lucrative contract. Stupidity on her part, but I don't doubt it will happen again. Keep things like that in mind when cold calling for business...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[controlsdude]

Had this sales/contract writing job that I was forced into many years ago. The whole idea of talking on the phone most of the day took the energy out of me.

I think either talking gives people energy or it sucks the energy out of you. Most people have a so many words a day vocabolary. I think it was proven that women have 2x the words/day capacity then men.

Being timid is not the word for engineers, but when a engineer speaks I think he is thinking what to say because the person is guarded. Guarded means that as an engineer what you say has to be right or correct, not some off the cuff comment like sales speak. Sales is about smoozing and greasing the wheel to get the sale and promising the world to the customer. Sales is the opposite of engineering, but its not evil vs good, both can not live without the other.

 

[KENAT]

I don't know, if a good product sells itself then maybe good engineers could live without sales folks.;-)

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[JohnRBaker]

TygerDawg, this is one reason why, despite the fact that I now work in the development department of a software company, that I've kept my P.E. license up-to-date all these years (note that I did work 14 years as a design engineer for a large multinational manufacturing company and I have a BSME degree from one of the top rated schools in the country. That way I can legally include it as part of my title on my business card and on my email/internet signature as it gives me credibility when I'm dealing with engineers who have to live with our products on a day-today basis. And while it is true that for 7 years I did work in the sales organization of our company (prior to moving to R&D), I was never on comp and the role I play was that of professional consulting in support of our 'sales-weasels' (those Dilbert cartoons were not choosen by accident). My move to R&D came about as the result of us winning in 1987 the largest (and still the record) single CAD/CAM/CAE software deal in the history of the industry and it was decided that since I was one of the people who actually knew what it was that we had promised the customer, that it would be helpful is I moved to the development side of the organization so that we could be sure that we actually delivered what we had said that we would (or at least alluded to delivering). That was 24 years ago this coming week, and I've never looked back ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.com/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[JohnRBaker]

...if a good product sells itself then maybe good engineers could live without sales folks

Hey, someone has to get the signatures on the PO and file the paperwork ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.com/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[msquared48]

When I started my business 30 years ago, I had to use cold calls to develop my own clients, not using any of the leads of my employer at that time. With time, it was not hard and I was good at it averaging one job every five calls. Since the first year or so, I have not had to do many as my network worked for me.

However, as many clients either retired, passed on, or just quit the business over the years, I am considering cold calling again.

God help me!

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[lacajun]

hokie66, send your number and I'll cold call you. You sound rather extroverted.

I don't think this salesman is intimidated by engineers. I think he finds us humorously and inordinately introverted. We are risk averse and dislike going into unknown situations particularly unknown situations with respect to people.

For years I thought I was introverted. I did some analysis a couple of years ago and learned I am an extrovert. Who would have known??? I didn't give it much thought so it was a surprise to me.

 

[zdas04]

lacajun,
Did you take the Meyers-Briggs test? If so, the "E" in their ranking really doesn't mean "extrovert" even though that is the label they hang on it. I've had to take that damn test 5 times over the years (always got the same score), and spent some time researching the meanings of the rankings. Each of the four terms are relative to each other. The other three terms define the midpoint of the fourth. So, I'm an ENTJ, the combination of "N", "T", and "J" defines where the midpoint of the "troverted" continuum sits (and the combination of the "E", "N", and "T" define the midpoint of the "judgement" continuum). It could be that the midpoint for me is "will never voluntarily talk to another person" and the "Intorvert" would "sit in a dark room without a phone" and the "Extrovert" would "turn on the light". Not really extroverted by any rational definition.

David

 

[lacajun]

David, M-B put me at ENTJ, too. The people doing the testing told me beforehand they thought I was extroverted. I protested but they stood firm.

I will start conversations in any line while waiting. If something grabs my interest about a person or thing, away I go. Sometimes I start a conversation just to see if I can.

I will develop ideas or plans in my head but then I really want to discuss them with others I know and trust.

Dark rooms are for sleeping.

Phones are great for short messages or when you can't get face-to-face.

 

[zdas04]

I'm much the same (you don't have success teaching classes if you won't make eye contact, and I've been pretty successful at that), but a couple of my co-workers would actually get sick if they had to do a presentation and they showed up as "E". It is all relative to the other letters.

David

 

[Ron]

I don't consider myself an extrovert, by any means. However, I have started and run 3 businesses. Sold one, dissolved another from lack of my interest, and still have the other.

Have taken a variety of psychological profile tests over the years and scored similar on all...yet don't necessarily fit the profile.

Can't stand corporate politics. Can't stand corporate weenies. Been there...done that..as "they" say. I keep my business small, because I have no desire to "manage". I don't advertise. I don't market. I don't compete on price. Apparently I'm reasonably good at what I do...according to those that matter (my repeat clients). No, I'm not arrogant. I serve my clients. I take care of my family. If my family needs me on Wednesday morning, I'm there. If my client needs me on Sunday afternoon, I'm there. If there's a conflict, my family usually wins.

I make eye contact. I don't give a $hit what MY shoes look like, much less yours. My wife says I intimidate. I have no desire to intimidate. I just want to reach an understanding when I interact...that's best done directly without nuance and innuendo.

Put me in whatever category or slot you feel the need to do..I don't care. I make no apologies for being "me".

I'm an engineer and I want to be like hokie66 and zdas04 when I grow up!

 

[jmw]

I always thought ENTJ meant Ear, Nose, Throat and Jiggly bits.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SNORGY]

I would have thought most MB profiles for engineers would be ISTJ.
I wouldn't consider myself timid. In a sense, every call initiated on my end of the phone or computer is a cold call. Pre qualifying vendors would be a good example. Within the context of drumming up new business or clients, though, my experience is that most engineers don't seem to be wired that way. The ones that are, they run their own companies, but even that is often a product of their not agreeing with others around them.
It is too bad. If more engineers and fewer MBAs ran engineering companies, inevitably the second law of thermodynamics might prevail at the end of time, but the end of time would be further down the road.

Not that I am in any way bitter.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[lacajun]

SNORGY, I think you are, in some way, bitter. Bitterness is a hard emotion to overcome or it was for me. I wish fewer MBA's ran a lot of companies related to manufacturing. I'm trying to get my own company up and running because I've disagreed with others. However, when it comes to ethics and ensuring my customers are taken care of correctly, honestly, and according to the law, disagreements often prevail. Often, people look at the bottom line rather than the right thing to do. As a Christian, I have no desire to be irresponsible with the truth. As a P.E., I have no desire to compromise my license. It was a lot of work to get and many years of effort. I'm also learning many P.E.'s that I don't know take ethics very seriously, which is refreshing to me. Bible study is an excellent way to understand the depravity of man and what we're all capable of committing against another person. But we also have the great news of the Gospel so it's hard to stay "down" too long.

Ron, I am with you right down the line. Far too many will reach the end of their lives and wonder where the substance is but you will not. Count your blessings for seeing it early in life.

 

[lacajun]

jmw, none of my ENT's had J's as you describe. They were all pretty taut, trim dudes much to my satisfaction.

 

[jmw]

It could be ORLJ, for the latin minded: oto rhino laryngology....and junoesque bits.
Mind you, I do wonder why medical types named the nose for a large African animal....

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SNORGY]

lacajun:

I am as you say just a tad bitter. But, like you, my ethics are second to none and I am not driven by money.

I do care about engineering.


Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[SomptingGuy]

I've come to realise a few things over the years, which may be obvious, but they're not always appreciated.

There are many jobs in my business that I'd never want to do, however, there are people who seem to really enjoy doing them.

Forcing someone into a role in which they are not comfortable is never a good thing.

You are wrong to assume that everyone has the same aspirations.

Team dynamics cannot be manufactured. The parts that people play in a team need to be understood.



- Steve

LinkedIn