Are engineers timid? 18

[lacajun]

During a conversation with a salesman, he stated that engineers are uncomfortable cold calling companies or people. If you gave one an assignment to call fifteen companies, institutions, people, he would be very uncomfortable doing it. He believes the task would not get done.

All thoughts and humor are welcome.

 

[SNORGY]

I have been declared as incompetent by the same client three times in my career. I find that somewhat odd, given that they keep asking me to design more stuff for them, and it always works.

On one occasion, with this client, my incompetence was proclaimed by a plant superintendent because I delayed a start up by one day, and I used that day to have a contractor complete some small bore piping welds before we started to bring gas into the plant. The part of the story that the client left out was the part in which one of the two operators had asked me to hold off on the start-up because the other operator was too drunk to help him start up the plant. I, meanwhile, didn't want to expose a construction crew to any risks arising from trying to start up a gas plant with a drunk operator.

The superintendent was never told *that* part of the story, and my employer (the EPC firm) instructed me to never mention it either, because it would be in the best interests of all concerned to maintain a good working relationship with a valued client. I was told that it was politically correct, ethical and professional for my employer to state to the client that the delay was due to my inexperience as a project engineer and to leave it at that. I was, thus, scapegoated, my time was not reimbursed and I was banned from future work on that client's projects.

I suppose, at that time, perhaps "timid" would have been an adjective used by some. Looking back on it, I think I just took a bullet for the team, because in the words of Jack Nicholson, "You can't handle the truth.".

Twenty years later, if I was in the same position, I would have told the contractor to demobilize all of his personnel for the day, hopped in the foreman's pick-up and driven the three hours down the forestry trunk road to the nearest inhabited town or village, and left the client to do whatever he wanted while we were gone. My days of taking those kinds of bullets for the team have passed.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[DTOREC]

I've been self employed for 12 years. I can honestly say that I have made at least a thousand cold calls. I haven't had to make any in a couple of years, though. Once you develop a book of business, the phone rings.

I will admit that it's not my favorite activity. But it's pretty easy if you have a plan and an idea of how to work each prospect.

 

[rmw]

I've known extroverted, gregarious, outgoing salesmen (sales engineers of highly technical products) who dearly hated cold calling.

rmw

 

[jmw]

Back before mobile phones computers and the internet (those of you who can remember that far back), the cold call was an essential means to identify new prospects.
Salesmen hacking round the country and tracking down industrial sites, visiting factories and asking what they did and who to see was a way of doing business.
Salesmen had all sorts of tricks to gain access to potentially useful contacts within the company.
Much of this was a collosal waste of time. Or rather, the productivity level was very low. Companies recognised that 80% of the business comes from 20% of the client base and thus it is more productive to focus on that 20% to maintain and expand business and to harvest the rest on an ad hoc basis.

Today computers and the internet and mobile phones make it a lot more productive to use the internet to search out potential new clients and develop some intelligence remotely. Then you mail technical literature etc to likely prospects and then you contact them and follow up. AT this point the first face to face is no longer a cold call with some salesman in reception making a nuisance of himself and claiming some of some one's time to go away but there is some prior activity.

There is no magic formula except hard graft and working smart. Cold calling is a desperation measure. It delivers but it is not today the best way to develop new business. Not in its orginal form.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[btrueblood]

"hard graft and working smart"

 

[lacajun]

Well darn! I've hooked up with some other sales types for help. They are surprised I cannot break into companies because my presentation is good. I'm not timid and my experience comes through. There must be something I'm doing wrong.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[patprimmer]

Sales success does not depend on being not timid. In fact in many cases being to out there goes against you.

There are a whole bunch of things you need to know to sell things.

What you are selling and who you sell to makes a significant difference.

I have sold to engineers or engineering types for years with varying levels of success. One variable was the product. If you are selling a turkey and everyone knows it's a turkey you will not succeed.

One major sales skill I acquired was the ability to identify a potential customers needs and see how they match my product line. No match, politely say so and move on, but leave the door open.

I NEVER EVER called in person without an appointment of some kind. I think it is just plain rude and disrespectful.

I have done a number of market research projects starting with researching lists of prospects, calling them and quickly establishing who is who there and if they have a use for my products. From that research, and sometimes during that call, I make appointments. That greatly reduces wasted time and significantly increases your chance of actually selling something that the person wants to buy.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[patprimmer]

Pamela.

I can come back and expand on this if you like, but I have a pressing appointment right now and I don't really want to do a jmw type post to any greater degree than my last post already is.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[lacajun]

patprimmer, thanks for the excellent reminders!

Things are different in the USA after 9/11 and Dept. of Homeland Security. Big Box companies have changed the landscape, too. I'm unsure all the changes have been for the betterment of the commerce culture here.

Since it's just me, it will be very hard to get traction. I am an unknown to most people.

It will work out one way or another.

Thanks for the interest!

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[patprimmer]

Pamela.

The other golden rule is that it is unlikely you will win business through personality.

Apart from price, by far the biggest reason people change is because they are dissatisfied. Being in their mind when they are of a mind to change is the big factor.

If they have a need for your product including price/quality position, but are unwilling to change, just do enough to stay on their radar so you are likely to learn they are ready to change. A consistent regular presence without push is the method.

If you win on price alone, you lose just as easy and become engaged in a race to the bottom. That might be valid if you have the lowest cost structures and can win that race, but you need to know.

Exceptional product and industry knowledge and an ability to ask leading questions THEN listen to and analyse answers whether verbal or not is also a good skill set to have. Out there sales personalities inevitably lack these skills.

Oh and never be afraid to ask for an order. The person is seeing you because they need to buy what your offering. They are only deciding from whom.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[lacajun]

Pat, I am a pretty low key engineer. I don't like pushy, in others or me. I did a decent job of selling my solutions to internal customers. I have a number of strikes against me now, e.g., being an outsider, one man show, lack of capital, no existing customer list, etc. It's different trying to get in as an outsider. Once I get in, I usually get job offers, which is not the goal.

One manufacturer recommended I get a job because what I am trying to do is incredibly difficult to almost impossible. Life is too short to wear so many different hats. I wonder if he thinks I am going to fail? If I do, I do. At least I will have tried, which is more than a lot of people do.

It's been interesting and fun. I've met people I wouldn't have ordinarily. I've heard and learned things I wouldn't have otherwise. It's been more interesting than the linear direction I had in Corporate America. I've spent so many hours in front of computers programming controls I got really tired of it. But, I may be there again soon. If that's the path, I'll be happy with it.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SnTMan]

I had thought of posting a reply here....but...Oh, I don't know...

 

[tz101]

I think that engineers have their own set of skills and abilities and too often "managers" try to push them outside their sphere of greatest productivity. Creative thinkers are often somewhat silent types and that can be seen as timidity, but not necessarily so. Silence and forethought is not automatically a weakness as "timidity" implies.

I like to look at it this way: God made some the hands, some the feet, and some the eyes, etc. The hand cannot say to the eyes, "I am more important than you, and therefore don't need you." No, the entire body does not function properly without each piece doing its assigned task.

 

[lacajun]

tz101, excellent point! Couldn't agree more.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SnTMan]

OK, just read thru some of the earlier posts, the looking at shoes thing brought to mind the old joke.

How do you tell if an engineer is an introvert or an extrovert?
An introvert looks at his shoes when talkng to you, an extrovert looks at your shoes.

Regards,

Mike

 

[lacajun]

Good joke, SnTMan!

Said salesman gave me more "coaching" last night to make me the aggressive saleswoman he believes I am not. He cracks me up.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SnTMan]

lacajun, glad you liked it

Visited your blog briefly, have to believe you will get where you want to go. Keep at it.

Regards,

Mike

 

[SNORGY]

lacajun,

Stop by the pub one day to receive well-deserved accolades.

tz101,

God made some the hands, some the feet, some the eyes...but sadly, the ones found most in abundance are those that are correlated with parts of the anatomy located at the intersection between straight verical and horizontal lines that connect those features.

 

[lacajun]

Thanks, Mike! I fear I lack a business head. The last few weeks have been an interesting lesson in human nature and once again I have some decisions to make. The good news is that I've recently met some people who are decent and will not abandon one in a bad spot. For me, that's good to see.

SNORGY, tell me the pub and I'll drop by. I don't need accolades but could use an encouraging slap on the back.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SNORGY]

lacajun...

Pat's Pub. Lots of folks wished you well on your recent (last week) TipMaster selection, me included. You are a well-liked and respected member here.

So...congrats (belated as it were)...