Are you a Structural Engineer? 2

[JayZ12]

I've been struggling with an answer to this question for sometime.

So say you are a licensed Professional Engineer that practices structural engineering. Obviously, you have passed the PE exam, but have not yet taken and passed the NCEES SE exam. Can you market yourself as a Structural Engineer in let's say Washington? Washington requires an SE for structures essentially classified as III and IV.

I've seen professionals list themselves as "Structural Engineers" in their email signatures when in fact they are only licensed as a "Professional Engineer".

I've chosen to put "Professional Engineer" with Structural Engineering (my department) listed below.

Thoughts?

 

[JStephen]

Check your state rules, each state is different.
I was thinking some states specifically regulated use of the title, not sure if Washington is one- seems like CA is.
Some states don't license by specialty, and that is more likely to be the case in the example you note.

 

[TDIengineer]

Depending on your state, you actually cannot use the title "Structural Engineer" without an SE.

I have seen it twisted to Structural Project Engineer...but that is also probably technically not ok.


I'll let the legal minded folks chime in.. plenty of those here.. ready go!

But to answer your question, I think your signature is appropriate.

 

[JStephen]

From the Washington state rules:
"WAC 196-23-040 Use of the title S.E. Only professional
engineers who have completed the state of Washington’s
requirements for licensure in structural engineering are
permitted to use the title of S.E. when representing his or her
licensing credential, as in, James Smith, P.E., S.E. Use of the
title S.E. by any individual who is not licensed in structural
engineering as provided in chapter 18.43 RCW, is subject to
disciplinary action by the board in accordance with chapter
18.43 RCW and/or chapter 18.235 RCW."

And in one of the exemption paragraphs:
"WAC 196-12-100 Limited waiver of the requirement
for licensure in structural engineering to design "significant
structures." The board may grant a waiver of the
licensing requirement in structural engineering for qualified
candidates. Said waiver is available July 1, 2008. All waivers
issued by the board are not renewable and will expire 12:00
a.m. December 31, 2010. Individuals being issued the waiver
are not permitted to represent themselves as being licensed in
structural engineering or otherwise using any title or advertisement
tending to convey the impression he or she is
licensed in structural engineering."

 

[TXStructural]

Texas does not license specialties, so any licensed PE can call themselves a structural engineer AS LONG AS they practice within their ability. The state generally recognizes ability as either (1) experience in practice, (2) field of education and degrees obtained, or (3) examination, or a combination thereof.

The universal rule is that use of the title Structural Engineer is limited when a state has passed regulation or legislation which protects the title (Title protection legislation is most common.) For example, California prohibits the use of the SECB designation in the state if the holder is not a licensed SE in California, since it tends to mislead consumers of our services about licensing.

 

[AELLC]

Arizona is similar to CA.

But what happens when a Civil Eng PE is the EOR for a low-rise structural design, and there is a separate "CEPE" who is the EOR for the civil (site) engineering?

The definition of a structural engineer: overdesign by a factor of 1.999, instead of the usual 2.

 

[fel3]

I am a Professional (i.e. licensed) Civil Engineer in California. Since I am not also licensed as a Structural Engineer (for which a Civil license is a prerequisite), I can't call myself a Structural Engineer. Civil is a practice act license, which means only licensed civil engineers can practice civil engineering as defined by the State. Structural is a title act license, which means the use of the title is restricted but not the practice (within certain bounds). With my Civil license I can do a fairly broad range of structural engineering, but I purposely limit myself to small reinforced concrete structures, like retaining walls, culvert headwalls, cast-in-place vaults, etc. The largest reinforced concrete structures I have designed are secondary clarifiers for small waste water treatment plants, but that was a while ago. Most of my work over the past 34 years has been related to municipal and institutional infrastructure.

==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[AELLC]

fel3,

Do the laws in CA allow you to do structural calcs of low-rise, meaning 4-stories or less, buildings?

The definition of a structural engineer: overdesign by a factor of 1.999, instead of the usual 2.

 

[rb1957]

i was just reading about the Medal of Honor. apparently the law defining this medal says "you cannot falsely claim to be a recipient" and goes on i expect to define the penalty. however, someone successfully appealed conviction saying that this law infringed his amendment 1 rights to free speech. could someone claim the same of the engineering acts (and those of other professions) that limit the use of a term, and impose penalties on those who use it without merit ?

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[AELLC]

rb,

I went thru the whole issue years ago w/ the authorities, and got nowhere (civil vs struct, not Medal of Honor)...total waste of time.

The definition of a structural engineer: overdesign by a factor of 1.999, instead of the usual 2.

 

[JayZ12]

rb1957:

That's possible, but then I would ask although it might not be "illegal" is it ethical to call yourself an Structural Engineer (in jurisdictions that have separate licensure) when you don't have the proper license?

This is an interesting topic to me. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[AELLC]

Jay,

If you are a Civil PE, and do the structure 100% of some low-rise, you are the Struct EOR but you cannot advertise yourself as a Strucural Engineer to the public...you can advertise yourslef as a Civil Engineer that is legally allowed to do Structural design of low-rise structures.

The definition of a structural engineer: overdesign by a factor of 1.999, instead of the usual 2.

 

[TXStructural]

Jay, in what state do you practice?

 

[JStephen]

AELLC- the rules are online, but if I remember correctly, there are only a fairly limited set of buildings that require an SE in California per the state engineering rules. However, in the past, many owners would expect and/or require an SE even though it was not required by state rules.

 

[fel3]

AELLC…

As I recall, I am limited to 2 stories and cannot do schools or hospitals or certain other critical structures. Since I don't do buildings, I haven't looked at those restrictions in a while. The only buildings I have ever done are two small reinforced masonry pumping stations and one small reinforced concrete/masonry pumping station, and that was more than 20 years ago.

Fred

==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

 

[dhengr]

AELLC:
You say.... “You are a Civil PE,” “you can advertise yourslef as a Civil Engineer that is legally allowed to do Structural design of low-rise structures.” Does that mean that you would sign your drawing, calcs. and correspondence with AELLC, CEPEtilatdSdolrs? Talk about the rampant title inflation that is going around these days. That’s almost as many letters after your name as I see after some other Engineers and Architects names, these days.

 

[steellion]

In some states, you can't even use the word "engineer" unless you're licensed.

 

[mtu1972]

I only practiced in the upper Midwest (MN, MI, WI) but got reciprocity and designed buildings in several other states. I am a Civil Engineer who took all of the optional structural classes that were offered and then spent an additional year taking graduate level structures classes. When I took the PE exam in MN (1977), I had to declare a discipline (i.e. Structural) and the afternoon questions were separated as such. I was also cautioned not to work outside of my field of expertise. This meant I could not do work in other Civil disciplines such as hydraulics, environmental, transportation, etc.

So I am a Structural Engineer, but there was not all the legal BS associated with it back then.

We were all aware that CA (because of earthquakes) and IL (who knows why; maybe somebody got their palm's greased) had special SE requirements. I'm sure other western states had similar requirements, but we were not aware of them.

I would never use the "SE" initials after my name, but I would have my position labeled "Sr. Structural Engineer" on my business card.

Probably because of some of this crap my last employer changed our titles to "Structural Lead". That they were not even recognizing me as an engineer really bugged me!

gjc

 

[JayZ12]

TxStruct: I practice mainly in MT. MT doesn't have a separate recognition for SE's. My firm does however do work in many states.

What really got me thinking about this was the fact that I was just requested to update a resume for an IDIQ contract RFQ. The resume that our word processing sent me was from referred to me as a "Structural Engineer". This particular IDIQ contract would involve buildings in all 50 states. I didn't think it was right to call myself a structural engineer considering some of the states do indeed separate PE's and SE's.

 

[AELLC]

dhengr:

Quite droll - but what I was advocating was SE1 and SE2, or similar - SE1 being licensed for 1 or 2 stories, no schools, etc.

SE2 would be unrestricted.

Civil PE would be grandfathered, but new CE's would be licensed only for retaining walls less than 10', and the usual Civil structures, within limitations.

The definition of a structural engineer: overdesign by a factor of 1.999, instead of the usual 2.