Boeing again 47

[Alistair_Heaton]

It's likely the tapered thread uses less mass than the modern method.

This is purely a guess why if they do.

And the space side of things will be a different breed and setup to the aircraft side of the company.

 

[thebard3]

Whatever the design, it's hard to believe this issue didn't show up either during ground testing or 2 previous test flights. Since it's affected several thrusters on this flight it doesn't seem to be a rare occurrence.

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[waross]

From the snippet of information:

or poppet valve expanding or extruding

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[3DDave]

Yes, the space side will be different, since this part of the system is designed and built by L3Harris.

 

[TugboatEng]

The pattern continues.

https://www.l3harris.com/company/diversity-equity-and-inclusion

Even worse, they have an ESG statement as well.

 

[3DDave]

Tug - what does merit look like to you? Your company decided to screw you after your making a good effort. Why are you still working for them instead of a better company? Isn't merit enough to get a better position? Maybe your boss stepped up for you - the company didn't.

Recall when the US went full on DEI and helped win WWII? That was when America was great.

 

[IRstuff]

DEI is just easy scapegoating rather than looking at crappy corporate culture and management, where GMs yak about safety, engineering excellence, and customer trust, but only care about their bonus, and that is carried down to the lowest management level that gets bonuses.

Face the truth, corporate culture has been crappy WAY BEFORE DEI came on the scene; it's just taken a couple of decades for the cumulative bad decisions to result in more than occasional fubars.

Boeing's culture was already internally lousy in the early 2000s, when it became obvious that their much vaunted "Systems Engineering" excellence was a paper tiger.

The bottom line is the bottom line, when CEOs are more concerned by "shareholder value" than design and manufacturing excellence; that's been going on since stock markets became thing.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Rocketdyne was only acquired by l3harris in 2023.

And as it's flown before without issues in the same system I suspect it's more likely to be a bad materials batch or change of product or method of assembly.

In that order.

 

[SWComposites]

article from 2011 about Boeing getting rid of core systems integration and aircraft design competencies:

https://www.reuters.com/article/wor...a-prayer-outsourcing-at-boeing-idUSTRE70J2UX/

and if you can get past the paywall, this article:

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...squos-control-over-787rsquos-crucial-systems/

and this about McD who took over Boeing:
between 1968 and its merger with Boeing in 1997 MDC only launched ONE new aircraft –the DC-10. And in the same time frame, it only won TWO new military contracts with its own designs – the F-15 Eagle and the C-17. A chronic lack of R&D, the resignations of top executives because of interference from Mr Mac and a lack of trust (in Douglas), and understanding of the airline market by the top management and board, killed off the premier commercial aircraft builder in Douglas and the number one military aircraft manufacturer in McDonnell.

 

[TugboatEng]

3DDave, I work for a small company. We have maybe 7 people in management though we are owned by a much larger organization. There is only one position higher than mine in my career path and it is occupied by my manager. I don't know that I want his position. He has to focus so much on regulatory compliance he has no capacity left to to even consider quality or innovation. Just make it work.

 

[3DDave]

Tug, I didn't mean a different management level - I meant a better company that doesn't screw the important employees who have high merit and that pays a great deal more, though I have yet to see any way that merit can be objectively measured. Past performance? Sure, though the best performance an employee can do is avoiding an expensive catastrophe; how is something that doesn't happen measured?

 

[LionelHutz]

To be fair, Boeing has managed to build one new aircraft since the mid 90's and Airbus has managed to build 2 and acquire a 3rd so I don't see either company as being much more innovative or market leading compared to the other. I didn't count variations here, only new planes.

Corporate culture and public stock trading does nothing good for most companies since the board and upper management chases the next quarter numbers to get their bonuses, long term sustainability be damned.

 

[thebard3]

Boeing has managed to build one new aircraft since the mid 90's

The 777 is one of the most successful airliners ever built. It's design and manufacturing processes are pretty much locked down so it would take overt action from management to mess it up. Similarly for the 767 which will probably be out of production in the next few years. The 757 probably could have had a longer production run. I'm not aware of any significant design or production issues with those. Nothing to be said about the 747. The 787 has had a lot of teething problems, but most seem to be resolved (rumors aside) unless we learn of something really untoward in the future. The 737 is the other plane that has an incredibly successful history. At least until the management blunder known as MCAS forever besmirched it's reputation.
It seems that Boeing is all-in on the 777, 787 and 737 variants. I don't see them earnestly working on anything else. It's probably a good thing right now because I don't think they really know how to design and build a new plane from scratch.

Brad Waybright

It takes competence to recognize incompetence.

 

[waross]

The 777 is one of the most successful airliners ever built. It's design and manufacturing processes are pretty much locked down so it would take overt action from management to mess it up.

That would never happen.
Upper management would never put unreasonable pressure on lower managers.
Lower managers, to meet upper management demands, would never cut inspection time so short that there would not be time to clean debris from the tanks.
Even if the floor workers screwed up and left debris, it would be found and reported by the final inspection teams.
Management would never shorten inspection times so that there was not enough time for a complete inspection.
The final inspection will always find left behind debris and missing bolts.

would take overt action from management to mess it up

That would never happen would it.
Face it.
Boeing's culture is broken, badly broken.
Ah Snap. I forgot the sarcasm font again.


--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Apparently the new CEO has set up shop on site in production in Seattle.

Making the blunties travel up from Virginia to see him.

 

[hokie66]

waross, not sarcasm...cynicism. Not sure there is a font or emoticon for that.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Let's give this new CEO some breathing space.

We definitely don't want Boeing to go down. I would like them to start developing a 4th generation civilian aircraft relatively soon.

Airbus need to get thier finger out as well. And stop recycling their 1980's cockpit. They have an advantage having the CS cockpit ready to go.

But the regulator's need to define the new standards across a broad range of human performance issues and modern tech.

I see the current Boeing issues as a regulator failure as much as the company. That's international as well as the faa.

I haven't heard a bad thing yet about the new CEO.

 

[Tomfh]

Hopefully if he’s setting up shop in Seattle he’s less concerned with climate and diversity metrics than the last lot.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Those two aren't an issue.

It's the slavery to MBA's and stock performance that screwed them.

Recovery of the bonuses paid during the years of decline would be a good starting step

 

[davefitz]

In my 45 yr career I've seen 4 companies effectively become dissolved due to poor management changes. Boeing appears to have all the same management issues as those 4, and the only thing that allows them to hang on is their "crony capitalism" ties to the gov't regulators, legislators, and judges.

Revisit the downward spirals of Enron, GdF Suez/Engie, Progress Energy and Foster wheeler and you will see the exact same management errors that are now contaminating Boeing. If it wasn't for "crony capitalism", they would have been split up and sold to other companies by now. Maybe make the relationship official and nationalize it- call it the dept of aviation, or DOA.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick