Boeing Production Quality Issues 3

[dik]

This post is the continuation from this series of previous threads:

thread815-445840: Boeing 737 Max8 Aircraft Crashes and Investigations [Part 1]
thread815-450258: Boeing 737 Max8 Aircraft Crashes and Investigations [Part 2]
thread815-452000: Boeing 737 Max8 Aircraft Crashes and Investigations [Part 3]
thread815-454283: Boeing 737 Max8 Aircraft Crashes and Investigations [Part 4]
thread815-457125: Boeing 737 Max8 Aircraft Crashes and Investigations [Part 5]
thread815-461989: Boeing 737 Max8 Aircraft Crashes and Investigations [Part 6]
thread815-466401: Boeing 737 Max8 Aircraft Crashes and Investigations [Part 7]

From the news...

"Air safety officials in the United States have asked Boeing Co to supply fresh analysis and documentation showing that numerous subsystems in its 737 MAX planes would not be affected by electrical grounding issues first flagged in three areas of the jet in April, two people familiar with the matter have told the Reuters news agency.

The extra analysis injects new uncertainty over the timing of when Boeing’s best-selling plane would be cleared to fly by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reported Reuters on Tuesday."

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[moon161]

Guess they've done too much of this:

 

[LittleInch]

Dik,

Can you change the title please in edit or delete and start again....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[RedSnake]

Maybe you should add 737 MAX Investigations in the header. ;-)
It would make it a bit more clear, what this is about.

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

be better to make it a general Boeing production quality issues to be honest. The max is pretty much sorted now.

This latest stuff is a general QA and production. With a hefty load of management incompetence.

Every single production line has issues at the moment.

There is loads of stuff which I have thought about posting but didn't because it wasn't MAX related and it wasn't a disaster yet in physical terms.

 

[RedSnake]

Sorry my fault.
But if I ask nicely one more time maybe dik will change it to something more general as you suggested.

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[dik]

I thought it was a continuation and that's what the closed thread indicated... what would you like it changed to? I don't mind... Better Title?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

It's all related to the same shortcomings of the Boeing 737 Max. I suspect that Boeing and the Max will be under the microscope for a while, yet...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[RedSnake]

Boeing production quality issues.
Might do.

BR A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[dik]

Done...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[CWB1]

Curious, is quality actually a regulated metric?

 

[cranky108]

No quality is not a regulated measure, and it should be subjective.

I have no concern over the quality of a coat hanger. I do have a quality concern of an aircraft I need to ride in.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Quality is an regulated measure in aviation. And there is a small army that keeps it logged and then another small army that audits it. And a slightly smaller army which then certifies it and a smaller army that then inspect it.

It comes under the heading of Quality Management System.

 

[RedSnake]

Where I work quality is definitely a object thing.
Everything need to be kept within curtain given values or all things that are suppose to be included in the product must be there before it leaves the factory otherwise the quality isn't okey.

B.R. A



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[dik]

... and a McDonald's hamberger can have better quality than the local 'real' burger joint...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[moon161]

Yeah, customer side and producer side quality can be different things. Customer side it's in large part desirebility, in the way that an Iphone is desireable based on design and style. Producer side, one aspect is just validity of the production process. Is the process in control, are we making what we imagine or intend to make.

 

[FacEngrPE]

ISO 9000 is purported by it's title to be all about quality management. What it actually (my opinion) does is provide a framework to organize a companies efforts to provide product consistency. ISO 9000 does not make fit to task decisions, or fix marginal design.

It would not surprise me to find many aircraft related quality management programs to have ISO 9000 components, that are selected and used to aid the goal of safe airline operations.

Boeing posts this about their QMS system

http://www.boeingsuppliers.com/supplier/faq.html

 

[CWB1]

So what is considered the legal limit for defects per plane? Or is the answer to my question no, manufacturing quality is not regulated, only airworthiness of individual planes....just like roadworthiness of individual cars.

 

[dik]

It depends on what agency has been compromised...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Defects on the pilots side are control by what's called the master minimum equipment list MMEL, Which is produced by the OEM. This can be made more restrictive by the local CAA and the company so the document we work with is the MEL. There is another system which the engineers use which does something similar but that more of a condition monitoring system. So say something is nearing wear limits there will be a period when it will go onto an out of phase inspection cycle when its check every number of flight hours or cycles.

Aircraft techlog is a bit of an maze of sheets that the Captain has to check. And in some company's there is only two of you checking them the daily inspection technician and the Captain. In others which thankfully I work for a company that does this there is actually 5-6 checks, The QMS department is involved the Safety management System and the continuing airworthiness management officer (CAMO)then the audit department also do a daily fleet status and the certifying technician and Captain as final checks. I think in 6 years it has only failed to catch something once. And to be honest it was a pretty insignificant D mel item which is the longest MEL time limit on a defect and the item was a none flight safety item which as aircrew we never interact with or even care if its working or not. But the explosion afterwards of emails and the like was quiet outstanding. You would have though we had been flying around with a wheel missing instead of some crappy logo light bulb blown which gets turned off at 10 000ft every night flight and its only function is to light the logo on the fin and is cosmetic.

every defect which you can carry is listed in the MEL and a time period to rectify. Which is anything between 1 flight and 110 days.

The manufactures system is run via the airworthiness directives. And that can be aircraft grounded until complied with through to a time period or next heavy maint check.

A example of manufacturing being regulated is the 737 MAX fuel tank inspections by a FAA inspector before certificate of Airworthiness is issued to 737 MAX which haven't been delivered yet. But once they are delivered it then swaps over to the Part 145 organisations running the aircrafts compliance. The OEM then informs the certifying authority of the quality issues and it then takes action. And example of this is the current electrical issue which the FAA has grounded certain airframes with this electrical issue until its rectified. They don't have a fix for it yet. So the predelivery stay in the OEM quality management system to get rectified and won't get tits CoA until its compliant and the ones already flying will be dealt with by the Part 145 via the AD system.

And its not unusual for an aircraft to be delivered with open MEL items in the techlog from the acceptance and delivery flights. So the first normal crew will go to the aircraft with 10 landings in its life and there will be something open.