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BS + 30hrs (a new PE requirement) 8
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I have been following this issue for several years and find it unsettling. It smacks of favoritism to those with additional education as opposed to those with experience. Did you know that embedded in the new model law (but hushed up) is an exemption for engineering PhDs from the FE exam! Why do PhDs need an exemption from an exam covering the basics of engineering?!
Also, what will become of the bachelor in engineering? Will this be phased out in the long run and become a "pre-engineering" degree like the "pre-med" degree. NCEES appears to have washed their hands of ABET. Clearly, the NCEES does not believe that the undergraduate degree is sufficient to practice engineering. Maybe this is a good thing in the long run.
Also, what will become of the bachelor in engineering? Will this be phased out in the long run and become a "pre-engineering" degree like the "pre-med" degree. NCEES appears to have washed their hands of ABET. Clearly, the NCEES does not believe that the undergraduate degree is sufficient to practice engineering. Maybe this is a good thing in the long run.
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Does anyone know how switchovers will take place? If it's all at once, seems like there would be a period of time(2yrs) when no one is taking the PE exam. Also seems that there would be a rush of folks trying to pass before the change goes into effect. Will current PEs be grandfathered in?
The "grandfathering" is also worrisome. I am confident that the PEs will be grandfathered in the states where they are already registered. Getting a PE in a different state may be difficult if that state adopts the new education requirements.
So it might be a good idea to go ahead a get registered in all the states you expect to practice.
So it might be a good idea to go ahead a get registered in all the states you expect to practice.
I don't doubt that today's engineers need more knowledge than ever before. But it should be the responsibility of the schools to provide proper curriculums and the employers to provide proper mentoring. The NCEES position puts the entire burden upon the "little guy". The NCEES position will be a failure in the end since approximately 90% of engineering jobs do not require someone to have a PE.
I'm going to go in a different direction here. I agree that some people sitting for the PE are not really prepared to practice as professional engineers. But rather than forcing more formal education maybe we should have a more formal EIT period. I've seen folks come out of school and do cad work for their first few years. Then they buy a bunch of study books and start working problems right before the test. The PEs are too busy to take the time to teach the EITs. Maybe ASCE should put their effort into developing a program that would help employers train EITs in a more standard and methodical way. Perhaps a standard guide would help PEs realize what they need to pass on, and it would give EITs something to request from their PEs.
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Great point csd72! At one of my previous jobs, my boss had over half of the company's patents (30+ alone)and he was just a BSEE. That company had many MSEE and PhDs also. My boss was the one they went to ask questions of - so a MSEE or PhD doesn't necessarily make you a professional engineer.
NCEES is pushing all the states to implement this requirement at the same time, that is why it is 1/1/2015 to give NCEES 8 years to lobby the change. No state is obligated to implement all or even part of the NCEES Model Law, but an increasing number have implemented it, some intact and some with local mods.
The people at NCEES perceive a failure in the education provided by ABET-accredited engineering schools. They also think that adding 30 hours of post BS will "fix" this. I disagree, but I didn't participate in the committee work that led to the change in the Model Law. Reading through the NCEES newsletters (that any of us could have looked at over the last few years), the opinions in this thread might have been influential, but they weren't heard.
I think rbcoulter has the "grandfathering" issue right--existing registrations will almost certainly be grandfathered (possibly with some changes in the PDH rules), but it might be really hard for a grandfathered PE to get reciprocity into another state.
David
The people at NCEES perceive a failure in the education provided by ABET-accredited engineering schools. They also think that adding 30 hours of post BS will "fix" this. I disagree, but I didn't participate in the committee work that led to the change in the Model Law. Reading through the NCEES newsletters (that any of us could have looked at over the last few years), the opinions in this thread might have been influential, but they weren't heard.
I think rbcoulter has the "grandfathering" issue right--existing registrations will almost certainly be grandfathered (possibly with some changes in the PDH rules), but it might be really hard for a grandfathered PE to get reciprocity into another state.
David
This may cause some hardship for relocating engineers who are not at a point in life to go back to school for another year.
There will even be cases of engineers who were "model law" under the old standard who may not be able to register in the state they are relocating. For example, Florida tends to adopt the model law so I would expect them to be one of the first to implement it. Now, let's say you are a practicing engineer in New York and retiring to Florida. Even with an ABET accredited engineering degree, passing both FE and PE exams, and experience out the ying yang you would not be allowed to practice in Florida (if they adopt the new model law). It seems to me that they ought to "grandfather" model law status to prevent this.
There will even be cases of engineers who were "model law" under the old standard who may not be able to register in the state they are relocating. For example, Florida tends to adopt the model law so I would expect them to be one of the first to implement it. Now, let's say you are a practicing engineer in New York and retiring to Florida. Even with an ABET accredited engineering degree, passing both FE and PE exams, and experience out the ying yang you would not be allowed to practice in Florida (if they adopt the new model law). It seems to me that they ought to "grandfather" model law status to prevent this.
civilperson
Structural
Fortunately my states of licensure have not adopted the model law and the boards has not recommended that the model law be adopted. If your state is contemplating this new rule, write to the board and the state legislature members telling them your opinion and the fact that this will cause you to practice elsewhere and rescind your local license.
Yike I took neither the EIT or PE exams for my PE. I had to have 136 hours to graduate from a school where the free electives were astrophysics or a 300 level course in an engineering department different than yours (I'm a ChemE with surveying experience towards a PS?). I'll join any class action to have them take away my PE.
I think most here will agree that balancing a molarity equation doesn't make an competant engineer, its the ability to understand when and where you need to balance the equation.
I think most here will agree that balancing a molarity equation doesn't make an competant engineer, its the ability to understand when and where you need to balance the equation.
Somewhere on these forums is a thread about working engineers not involved in management of engineering associations. This is a fine example. The main purpose of the new model law was to make it easier for existing engineering PhDs to get their PE licenses and thwarting licensure of others. Again, I ask the question, why does an engineering PhD need an exemption from the Fundamentals of Engineering exam? I took both the FE and PE exams at age 41 and passed both on the first try with no problem. I have always worked in industry and never worked in academia, and this was 20 years after college.
Seems pretty ridiculous to me. With the number of articles I keep seeing about the lack of engineering graduates - and then an institution that sets the standards for qualifiying to take the P.E. ups the requirements?
What is the incentive for college students to enroll in engineering?
What is the incentive for college students to enroll in engineering?
The incentive? They like it. Most architecture programs are 5-year programs; if you get a 4-year "pre-professional" degree instead, you have to supplement it with a master's if you want to be licensed as an architect. Sounds familiar.
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
Hg
Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376
You know, a lot of the perceived deficiencies could be addressed if you weren't required to take classes from 4 disciplines for a CE degree. If you could take all of the technical classes from your are of interest, you would have close to an additional 30 credit hours in that particular area.
There is no need for a structural guy to take waste water management
There is no need for a structural guy to take waste water management
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DonPhillips
Structural
My son is a senior studying geomatics and when he graduates, he will have like 20 hours less credits than I did (same school). I am in favor of professional degrees (like architects) or master's. The kids today are just not getting enough classroom work.
Don Phillips
Don Phillips
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