California Warehouse Fire 4

[itsmoked]

Today the Oakland DA is considering murder charges.

Apparently a Guy and his Wife and 3 kids lived there acting as the Property Manager. He collected rents from 5 to $800/mo. He also collected a month's rent deposit and a one-time 'improvement' fee providing a list of things to be improved of which none were ever implemented. The place had limited access to reduce visitor surprises because when visitors came everyone had to go thru a Chinese Fire Drill of removing drying clothes and other things that gave evidence of people actually living in the otherwise only "art space".

An ex-tenant said that with dozens of extension cords running and draped everywhere she knew it was only a matter of time before the place went up and moved out as soon as she could.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[dik]

I suspect that there will be criminal charges against the building owner, the property manager and others. I also suspect that there will be a massive class action lawsuit against Oakland. Oakland has frozen access to public records.

Dik

 

[itsmoked]

Poor Oakland. Such a quagmire.

Recall they had to go thru like 4 police chiefs in a couple of months. Some scandal would occur and each would resign because, "Oh, I was maybe involved with the underage prostitute too", kind of debacles.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[stookeyfpe]

The fact that Oakland Fire Department did not deal with this raises some serious questions. Based on the occupancy and the conditions, I'm fairly sure fire companies responded to one or medical emergencies based on the use and character of the occupancy. If an Engine or Ladder is dispatched because of a 9-1-1 call, CA Title 29 gives the FD the authority to enter the building. Now the primary responsibility during an EMS incident is patient care and either treatment or refusal by the patient. However, as a Company Officer, situational awareness would tell one that the issues in this building warranted an inspection and pursuing this using the means of egress and occupancy change provisions in the California Fire Code.

The other disturbing element is that the CA agency for child protected removed 3 different children from 3 different families in the previous 24 months. That fact alone confirms the building was a Residential use and would have dictated automatic sprinkler protection per 2012 IBC and the 2012 IFC.

 

[dik]

Looking bad for Oakland

From the AP, "The illegally occupied Oakland warehouse where dozens of partygoers perished in a blaze does not appear in a database fire inspectors use to schedule inspections and may never have been checked for fire hazards, a firefighter with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press."

Dik

 

[itsmoked]

Yep. They're covering up something. It needs to be understood 'why' the city methodically seems to have worked fairly hard to not believe in "The Ghost" after many fire visits, police visits, and neighborhood complaints.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[Don56]

And after the flames died down and the ashes settled the great city of Oakland declared a "State of Emergency." Agreed what happened was terrible. But really? One building burns down and it's a State of Emergency.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Perhaps they were just anticipating all of the other disasters awaiting their citizens as a result of the inept city agencies.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[itsmoked]

More than likely it is simply a way for them to get more money from state coffers and allowable in some rule book because of the number of fatalities. No doubt the massive forensic 'dig' did cost more than a 'city' amount. Course it's entirely the city's fault it ultimately was allowed to occur.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[Spartan5]

Course it's entirely the city's fault it ultimately was allowed to occur.

In order of decreasing responsibility:
the owner;
the master tenants;
the residents;
the people at the party;
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
the city.

 

[itsmoked]

Yes, that's why I said "allowed [it] to occur", others certainly caused it.



Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[dik]

Spartan... we'll wait and see where the lawyers place the City... likely closer to the top... just before owner...

I'm surprised a class action has not yet commenced.

Dik

 

[cranky108]

Sort of depends if the owner had asked for an inspection of the wiring, or had a permit.

 

[drawoh]

itsmoked,

I clicked on MJCronin's link, then I followed the link at the bottom of the page...

As Oakland arts scene thrived in industrial spaces, city fell short on monitoring

If I were a city employee, I would not be kicking peoples' doors in. I am not paid for it, trained for it, or equipped for it. It appears that Ghost Ship had a routine worked out to conceal inhabitants from official visitors. Perhaps this is the red flag that should tell people to not live there.

--
JHG

 

[Spartan5]

Ahh yes, dik, the lawyers. I thought we were determining who was at fault here, not who had the most money

 

[dik]

Cranky... maybe a little. Lawyers will be jumping through hoops to prove negligence on the part of the City... just a matter of time.

Dik

 

[dik]

Spartan...a lot of stuff done today has nothing to do with engineering... but, minimising exposure to litigation. Nothing to do with right or wrong, correct or incorrect... I suspect the delay in laying charges is due to Oakland's own exposure...

Dik

 

[drawoh]

Spartan5,

The term today boys and girls is Joint and Several Liability. The city may not be anywhere near the most responsible party, but everyone else here sounds indigent. The city could wind up paying most of the settlement.

On the other hand, people either died, or they escaped. We do not have long term medical care or damage to expensive property.

About forty years ago, I worked part time as a security guard. I was checked out to see if I had a criminal record, I was fingerprinted, and that was it. If criminals had shown up at one of the construction sites or events I worked at, I would have called the police, then I would have retreated to a safe place. I had no training. I was not armed. I was not responsible for anything once I alerted authorities.

If you are a city inspector responding to complaints about garbage, you arrive at the site and see garbage, and you write a report. If they don't let you in the building, your choices are to kick the door in, or retreat. Almost certainly, you don't have the authority to use force. If the building is classified as a warehouse, the city has no duty of care.

--
JHG

 

[dik]

Jan 24, 2017

From the Washington Post

According to Almena’s defense team’s investigation, the fire could not have started inside Ghost Ship because the electric power distribution to the warehouse originated from the adjacent building. The attorneys declined to name the expert who came up with the findings and only said that that person is “qualified by both education and experience.”

Records show that city officials were aware of possible code violations as early as November. Complaints filed with the city alleged blight around the building and illegal construction and residential use inside. A city inspector visited the warehouse not long before the fire to document the blight outside, but was unable to go in. An investigation into possible illegal housing was still pending when the fire happened.

 

[itsmoked]

fire could not have started inside Ghost Ship because the electric power distribution to the warehouse originated from the adjacent building.

What a moronic statement!

So what, any electrical fire in any building was caused by the power company because the power originated outside the building? Sounds like good solid lawyer-speak.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com