Can engineers engineer safety... 1

[JohnRBaker]

I know this doesn't look like it belongs here, but I'm not sure where else to post it since I think the subject matter deserves to be discussed, and besides, once you read the item you'll see that it's indirectly related to the pedestrian bridge failure in Florida. Note that I didn't post this in that thread because A, it's already too long, and B, to get any sort of traction, it would have to distract from the discussion already underway there, thus becoming an off-topic pain in the arse.

Anyway, my question is, "Can engineers engineer safety?" Now I'm not talking about making a machine or a building safe, but rather to try and accomplish what the article is talking about; to engineer our surroundings so as to make it safe for individuals, in this case, to reduce the incident of pedestrian deaths on America's streets and roadways.

Why This State Thinks Engineers Can Save Pedestrians’ Lives

Nearly 6,000 pedestrians were killed in 2016 — the highest toll since the early 1990’s. The problem is increasingly concentrated in certain states.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-save-pedestrians_us_5afafc26e4b0b61057a3bc52

Now if someone can suggest a better forum for this topic to be discussed, please let me know and I'll gladly ask that this thread be moved forthwith.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
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[BridgeSmith]

"A street downtown in an older (by North American standards) city like New York or Toronto has traffic."

Neither holds a candle to the streets in Port-Au-Prince, Haiti. Imagine a busy shopping mall with grand prix races running through it. It's kind of like that, and yet few pedestrians are hit by cars. Why? Because pedestrians know that stepping out into the street without looking would most likely be fatal. Traffic control is nearly non-existent. When I was there 10 years ago, it was a city of 2 million with 1 traffic light. Right of way belongs to whoever is biggest or bravest.

 

[epoxybot]

In the US, roadway safety is at the municipal level. Cities recognize traffic citations as a revenue stream. Many cities only apply the Required elements of the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices. Here in the SF Bay Area, we have a guy that goes after cities that have traffic intersections with too many citations issued. He got started fighting a Red Light Camera. He gets a lot of resistance when he starts asking for traffic light timing reports. My city has gotten better at making sure pedestrian call switches are in good repair and that the time allowed to cross the street is reasonable but they have been caught a number of times, shortening the time length of the yellow lights at intersections with Red Light Cameras. This can also result in pedestrian deaths because driver's familiar with the light speed up. Some of the yellow lights are so short for the speed of travel that you really do have to stand on the brake to stop in time. These intersections tend to be the most heavily traveled during commute hours, when car & pedestrian incursions are highest.

Having lived near a couple of universities, I came to be conditioned to every year having a newly minted crop of "ADULTS" who felt compelled to freely exercise their "Right-of-Way" and walk out in front of oncoming cars because no one had ever actually taught them the Full Scope of the pedestrian right of way law & the pedestrian's responsibility.

Bicycles are a whole different matter. Even when there are bike lanes, the roadways have so much traffic these days that the bike lanes have so much debris in them that cyclists are either forced to the outside of the bike lane or up on the sidewalk.

 

[JohnRBaker]

As IRstuff has noted, in California, pedestrians ALWAYS have the right-of-way, even when they are jay-walking. Now that does NOT mean that they are not breaking the law as they can still be ticketed, just that traffic must yield to them, no matter where they happen to be walking.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
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[GregLocock]

So far as I know there are no jurisdictions where pedestrians do not have right of way. However, rather like steam giving way to sail, don't push your luck, supertankers will try to avoid your dinghy, but...

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[IRstuff]

Anytime a 160 lb organic bag of fluids crosses paths with a 4000 lb chunk of metal and hard plastic, SOMEONE needs to be extra careful.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[ACtrafficengr]

IRstuff, the person operating the piece of dangerous heavy machinery should have that onus.

GregLocack, in NY state, pedestrians only have the ROW if crossing at a marked, unsignalized crosswalk, or crossing during the ped phase at a signal, or with the green if there are no ped heads. They are required to yield if crossing at an unmarked location, and aren't allowed to cross against a red light or don't walk signal. The closest thing we have is a due care clause:

Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law to the contrary, every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, pedestrian, or domestic animal upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary. For the purposes of this section, the term "domestic animal" shall mean domesticated sheep, cattle, and goats which are under the supervision and control of a pedestrian.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

One factor that hasn't been discussed here is changes in the vehicle fleet. The rate of increase in fatal pedestrian crashes is highest for SUVs - 81% increase from 2009 to 2016, compared to 41% for passenger cars. It's partly the change in vehicle mix, but the front end geometry of SUVs leads to more head and chest impacts, and a pedestrian is more likely to be knocked down and run over. In a collisions with passenger car, they are more likely to land on the hood.

European and Asian regs require a crumple zone between the hood and the top of the engine to reduce injury severity. I can't find the reference, but I've heard US car makers are resisting such regulations in the US.

 

[dgallup]

ACtrafficengr - Yes, Europe (don't know about Asia) has pedestrian impact regs that basically require a soft hood which means space between the hood and hard bits underneath. I know the current Corvette ZR1 is not sold in Europe for that reason. Evidently other Corvette models have more space under the hood.

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[IRstuff]

"the person operating the piece of dangerous heavy machinery should have that onus."

Sure, but, "trust, but verify." It would be foolhardy to assume that the driver is a) taking on that onus, and b) can take on that onus.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[EdStainless]

I wonder if the US data looks any different if you separate out CA, NV, OR, WA, and CO.
I wonder how much 'impaired' walkers and drivers have to do with some of this.
Data seams to imply that accident rates are up, but not fatalities.

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[dgallup]

As a motorcyclist, I always assume that every motorist is out to kill me. Pedestrians are foolish to not do the same.

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[VEBill]

In Nova Scotia, jaywalking (crossing a road other than within a crosswalk) is permitted but the jaywalker must yield to the vehicles. The injured pedestrian will often be ticketed if they're hit by a car in those circumstances. I recall it's been on the news when the police visit the hospital to deliver the ticket.

Ref: NS MVA s.125 (5): "A pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a crosswalk shall yield the right of way to vehicles upon the roadway." [Just one rule amongst many.]

 

[GregLocock]

Amazing. Well, I've learned something today.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[rb1957]

man ! a red letter day !! c'mon smile

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