China Eastern Airlines flight MU5735 737-800 Crash 17

[Eufalconimorph]

Avherald.

Reuters.

Dash cam footage showing crash angle.

Video of security camera video, straight on (angle of descent looks steeper than reality).

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I fly A220 for a job. So have a working knowledge how they do things in most of the world but not China.

Even if the black boxes have been totally destroyed they can usually pull the solid state data out of them. They are not tape drives any more. But even so its going to be impressive if they have survived that.

 

[Sym P. le]

The ways and means of accomplishing things in China would be different than western cultures but that doesn't necessarily mean things won't get done.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I know that's why I was asking. Mates who are western were flying for Eastern on the Embraer pre covid and got released when it all shut down. There is huge cultural difference, but the engineering and technical was brilliant they tell me.

As I said above

China Eastern actually have quiet a good safety record.

 

[RedSnake]

If I don't remember wrongly the base is the same on this plane and the Max so it would look something like this.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[1503-44]

So ... what? You guys (you know who you are) think that being different models makes it impossible to have common faults? Did we not learn that when there is a corporate culture of cover ups and time is money, common faults are not limited to model number?

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[human909]

So ... what? You guys (you know who you are) think that being different models makes it impossible to have common faults?

As I understand it this is a system that has been around for over 55 years. Its tried, true and tested. Sure it is imperfect. But most of those imperfections are well known by now.

The core faults of the MAX were really restricted to the MAX. That was a new aspect that was designed an implemented solely for the MAX.

 

[1503-44]

Nobody is talking specifically about the max. That may be exactly the problem here. Manufacturing, assembly, inspection and quality control are also not (entirely) model dependent. In some cases parts and software may be completely interchangeable. Even still BP failures were not limited to offshore drilling, but also affected downstream operations. Corporate culture has wide ranging implications. That's what makes it so dangerous. And the 737/800 has not been entirely without previous issues, just none that required grounding. At this point, nothing should be discounted.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

just for info

Manufacturer Serial Number (MSN) 41474
Line Number 5453
Aircraft Type; Boeing 737-89P(WL)

First Flight 5 Jun 2015
Age 6.8 Years
Production Site Renton (RNT)

Its quite a young aircraft design Certified in 1998.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

This is doing the rounds of pilot circles.

I post it because most think it's not the aircraft. So if you see it be warned

 

[verymadmac]

I wonder which rear pressure bulkhead it had. I see that Boeing offered a Flat rear pressure bulkhead* for the NG series from 2006 with a suggestion that it was going to be standardized with a weight gain of ~200 lb. I see japan airlines optioned it for their 737-800's.

*normal bulkhead is domed, & well proven with the configuration being carried over from the 707. The flat pressure bulkhead can allow an extra seat row to be fitted.

 

[Sym P. le]

This is doing the rounds of pilot circles.

From Twitter:

This is from Aircrash Investigations / Mayday episode on Silk Air #MI185.​

... and even that is being debated. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[dik]

Rotate it 90deg clockwise, and all is well... time to go for a brew...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

interesting point verymadmac.

My gut feel is its something mechanical that's gone twang.

But it could be the crew stalled it but that's extremely unlikely at 29 000 ft the window between over speed and stall is colossal that low. Your not even limited by mach numbers at that alt.

 

[davefitz]

From the diagram provided by RedSnake there are about 25 individual components that provide control of the tail mechanism- and failure of just one of them may lead to disaster- I suspect the crash investigation should focus on reviewing the manufacturing QC documents for each of those 25 parts to determine if a fabrication defect slipped through the QC process. It is hoped that the QC process includes NDT of each part before they are accepted for use.

I seem to recall that in the 1980's a GE turbine engine failed on a US airliner, and the QC documents showed there had been a crack found in a rotating part and that it was supposed to be rejected , but was used anyway. GE offered something like a $10 million USD reward if a property owner found the part on their land and surrendered it to GE and not to the FAA, perhaps to avoid the legal N-word ( negligence) in the claims by the relatives of the crash victims. Anyway, the part was found in a corn field, the farmer became rich, and the court defense was that the actual part used was not the one shown in the QC documents.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

most of them have alternative/backup parts to my knowledge.

The yoke that attaches to the jackscrew and it are the two that are a single point of failure.

I might add its the same on the MAX and hasn't been acceptable since 1998 for new design certification. Everything else modern has 3 triple redundancy of actuation and power source.

But that's not to say anything will change if it does prove to be the issue. The 737 has amassed enough flight hours without a fatality involving this system that they can say it meets the safety failure criteria.

 

[Sym P. le]

Apparently voice recorder has been recovered.

Twitter1 also Twitter2

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's the data module that I was on about. Apparently they are rated at 1000 g and as it was a spear in with the rest of the plane acting as a crumple zone it should be well within limits for good data recovery.

 

[dik]

The Twitter account raises an interesting issue; can the data be stored on the cloud? even for a backup, for flight data as well as voice? Other than countries, or aircraft manufacturers objecting to not having control over the data.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

there is some data squirted back to maint mostly engine data but not the full flight profile data. its normal on a out of envelope trigger.

There has been talk about having real time flight data system but the FDR records I think 3300 variables at 0.2 second intervals the data capacity required through the sat data system would be monumental.

 

[1503-44]

Actually it's monumental to store on board. Is it really recorded 5 times/s?


A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.