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China Eastern Airlines flight MU5735 737-800 Crash 17

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Given how fast they turned over the evidence, they must be pretty certain of the conclusion and somehow I doubt they are betting on "pilot error".

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
 
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This is just speculation on my part....

It seems quite a few countries have a generic ability to download both and be able to process the data. But there are only a few countries that have the number crunching power and software capability to go the extra detail out of it.

I know the AAIB in the UK has an extensive frequency analysis capability for the CVR and I am sure the USA has something similar. Again some countries will have access to the full performance databases which won't be allowed to others. And then there is the number crunching power to process the raw data.

So what I suspect is they have copied what they have and then quite rightly handed it over to people that can get the most out of the data. And as 1503-44 says their initial analysis has shown that they need to be seen as completely open about things and they have nothing to hide.

The fact that there has been no reaction yet by EASA or FAA means that its not a world wide fleet issue like the MCAS was.
 
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Forgot to take it out of auto pilot is the usual cause for us floaters.
 
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Not dissimilar, its usually the FMS has been set up wrong or they haven't sequenced things so there is a transfer from "pink" to "green" ie from computer generated track to the radio ILS being active and armed to couple.

They will have been on vectors and then didn't do what's called an Extension on the A220 which means the auto FMS NAV to radio nav transfer won't occur when it senses the ILS lateral guidance coming in. Or they armed the approach with more than 70 degs course track angle to the localiser. Which can mean it transfers onto a false localiser beam.

If the transfer isn't sequenced properly you loose the go around FMS nav and have to fly it old school manual nav. Which isn't an issue but if you have just flown long haul for the last 8-12 hours and are jet lagged its more than a few holes in the cheese lined up.

CDG is a parallel approach, dual runway ops so any deviation through the approach your cleared for conflicts with the other runway. And out bounds need to cross the go-around path. They have warning systems on the radar and if you are more than 0.2 Nm out of the localiser slot alarms start going off.

Anyway recovered and second safe approach performed. Bit of a none event to be honest. They will have an interview with the flight safety officer after the flight data has been down loaded and possibly winter training program will have something similar added to it so everyone learns from it.
 
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Mariners, shipping.

There is common human machine interaction and spatial awareness of automation mode active.

It been an issue since the 50's and NASA has done loads of work on it.

Its come forward leaps and bounds in the last 70 years but there is still windows for human error and human factors to cause the loss of situational awareness.

The self driving cars are going through the same thing by the looks of it.
 
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oh i should have added there has been a load of work done in the Nuclear industry as well. In no way is aviation the subject leader in this field. In fact in some ways we lag behind due to certification rules allowing grandfathering of systems and methods which everyone knows are out of date and flawed.

I might add the 777 cockpit has all the latest safety features. But its still possible to perform an error. But as they discontinued the approach and reset the procedures worked to prevent an accident.
 
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I don't think it was immediately purged, but we do have the facility to do that due to some labour law or other. But to be honest I have forgotten how to do it. What I do know though is how to secure it so that it can't be over written.

This incident though only came to light 2 days afterwards and was not a reportable event (which has now changed in the US it would have been in europe) so by the time they started pulling the data in the CVR was over written by the previous 2 days flights. So it wasn't a crew commanded deletion just a normal usage cycle The FDR records 50 hours worth of data on a cycle so it was still available.

Personally I wouldn't do a visual onto a multiple runway airport its just way to easy to screw it up in the day time never mind night. But the way they deal with approaches and landing clearance in the USA is quiet different to what I am used to.

SFO has a colossal history of issues, the locals seem to take an almost perverse joy out of it. Others hate operating in there. I have seen a US pilot write that when her alarm goes off in the morning to fly into there she already knows that 30 odd holes are lined up in the accident swiss cheese model and she hadn't even had a shower yet never mind start an engine. Airport layout, ATC attitude, procedures, shite weather... the list is colossal. Nothing changes though and the excuse is that they are known problems and the pilots know about them and should mitigate them.... And if its left to the pilots eventually someone will screw things up. Throw an Air China into the mix and chaos ensues. Which might be amusing listening to in the comfort of your computer room it certainly isn't when your in the middle of it.
 
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Marine bunkers in the region have been causing loss of power incidents on ships lately. The fuel was contaminated with halogens which inhibit combustion. These chemicals are not normally tested for.

Would a sudden lost of both engines on an aircraft cause such a decent?
 
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I don't see that. Inherently any decent aircraft design glides reasonably well. I assume the powered controls have backup systems that leave adequate control to the pilots in the event of all main engines stopping.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz
 
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There's some interesting speculation on pprune.org (airline pilot's forum) in the rumors area regarding why the co-pilot had so many hours. Maybe totally innocent, maybe not. Interesting reading, if nothing else.

If you dig back far enough, there was extensive discussion about the Air Canada incident, too. No need to register to read.
 
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I can remember the description of the glide path of an F4. Something about a brick...

I’ll see your silver lining and raise you two black clouds. - Protection Operations
 
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