co-worker non claiming all hours worked 33

[shacked]

So, I work in a small structural engineering office where everyone knows everyone else. My boss owns half of the office that we work out of, which is located in a very nice area. Therefore our overhead is fairly high, which explains why my boss is always pushing us to "Get it out" or complaining that we didn't make any money on this or that job.

To make matters worse, one of the other engineers does not clock all the hours that he works. Since we are paid hourly this makes me look like an asshat, because I clock all my hours therefore it takes longer for me to complete a project. Of course this other guy is the bosses golden boy, but I think he is just kissing ass by not logging all his hours.

He told me the other day that sometimes when he is working on a project and the phone starts ringing off the hook, and he gets tied up for an hour or two answering questions from contractors, architects... that he doesn't feel that he should clock those hours on the project that he is working on. Of course he shouldn't, log the hours under general office time.

Any suggestions as to how I should handle this?
Oh, not sure if the boss knows this, but I am pretty damn sure it is obvious.

 

[JAE]

Oh, not sure if the boss knows this, but I am pretty damn sure it is obvious.

OK so going to your fellow worker and telling him to "stop working so hard, it makes me look bad" doesn't sound like a brilliant idea.

Going to your boss and saying "hey, that other guy is working extra hours for you for free and it's making me look bad" is not very nifty.

Hey, I know. Work hard and honestly for your boss. Whether you like it or not you essentially compete with your fellow workers daily. Employers see effort and value in their employees - sometimes not fairly, but I always trust that my good, honest effort will be rewarded in the long run.

 

[ctopher]

Work hard, log your hours. Don't worry what the next guy is doing; bad ethics will catch up to him..

Chris
SolidWorks 08, CATIA V5
ctopher's home (updated Aug 5, 2008)
ctopher's blog
SolidWorks Legion

 

[apsix]

Is it really unethical to give more than you are obliged to?

 

[msquared48]

No...

But my question would be ... Is he charging those unchargeable hours to valid chargeable accounts? That would be unethical.

Actually, in reading the first post, he is answering questions from contractors and architects. If these are contractors and architects of active and billable projects, then the time expended is billable, and should be. If not, accounts should be set up for these individuals and billed accordingly as consulting time. In either event, I see the time expended as billable.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[shacked]

"Is it really unethical to give more than you are obliged to? "
So when this guy doesn't log all of his hours, yes it is beneficial for the owner but it makes me look not as productive....hours/project.

Sorry to burst the bubble that just because you work hard and do a good job that someone will notice, but how in the hell can I beat the fact that this a-hole is basically working for free. I mean, what kind of kiss ass would do this?

On top of all this he has taken his FE 4-5 times and hasen't passed, while I have passed long ago.

 

[csd72]

Mike makes a very good point, maybe he is doing something for free that the company should be charging for.

 

[GregLocock]

OK, so he is making up for being less qualified by working more hours for less money. Or else he can't be bothered to figure out how to assign costs for interruptions to his main projects, so he doesn't charge for them. Or he feels he shouldn't charge for clarifications that shouldn't be needed.

I'd rather employ him than you, and frankly, it is beginning to sound like I'd rather work WITH him than you.

Think about it. You can't possibly 'win' this one.







Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Yep, that is quite clearly a soil removing tool.

- Steve

 

[Ron]

While I agree with others that you are whining, the "unclocked" hours thing can cut both ways, depending on how clueless the boss is. Putting down 40 hrs per week shows up later (6 months, a year...) as....40 hrs per week. Some bosses would brand him as "doing only the necessary to get by", while others would view him as "productive and efficient"....depends on the perspective of the boss. "Clocking" 50 hours per week might show the boss either that you're willing to go the extra or that it takes you longer than the other guys, so you're not as productive or efficient.

I would bet that your attitude as expressed in you original post comes through at work....that will be noticed by everyone...boss included...without regard to what you put on your timesheet.

Greg is exactly right. Lose the attitude and get to work or move on.

 

[HamishMcTavish]

Surely if YOU are booking hours to billable projects that lowers the overhead.

If your colleague on the other hand is not then he is contributing to overhead costs. Maybe he just needs a word in his ear...he is obviously working during those hours so why not charge it to a billable project it doesn't make sense.

You say that because you are clocking all your hours it takes you longer to complete a project - that surely cannot be true!

a) A task (notionally) takes you the same time whether you bill the hours or not; and

b) YOU clock the hours so your boss then has a true picture of how long it takes to do something WHICH HE CAN THEN BILL THE CLIENT FOR.

If your boss has a system where you bill non-client time to an overhead account code then he MUST be aware of your colleague's practice. Otherwise it would look like he was only working there part time while everyone else is booking a full week of work.

Regards, HM



No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

 

[SomptingGuy]

There is information missing here. My assumption is that you're all booking the same total number of hours each week to a range of billable jobs. The choice of dividing up the week is a regular Friday chore.

Working outside of hours and not charging is common, something young single blokes do all the time. Where I work there seems to be an unofficial competition for who can lose the most hours each month. A Flexi-time high score war.

- Steve

 

[B16A2]

If your boss knows this is going on and he starts singling you out about profitability I would find another job and give the bare minimum 1-2 week notice.

If he's that big of a douche to make you work for free, I'm sure he's not that great of an engineering mentor either.

 

[moltenmetal]

If your colleague is doing billable work for free because he can't figure out at the end of the day which projects he's worked on, he's an idiot. He's doing nobody any favours. Even if the job in question is fixed price rather than reimbursable, not booking hours properly leads the boss to underbid the next job and the one after that.

If you're both paid hourly, you're booking 50 and he's booking 40 but working 50, he's buying some goodwill with the boss. Unethical, bad strategy long term in my opinion, and definitely bad for the profession, but there's precious little you can do about it. Engineers should be compensated for every hour they work, billable or not, in some way or another- whether that be via O/T pay, time in lieu, bonus or ownership is between you and the boss to negotiate. Ordinary working blokes have that one figured out, and for some reason we engineers are "above" that. I guess people who work that way just accept it as "how it is", and think they're buying themselves favours in heaven. Bullsh*t- all they're doing is devaluing your own services, and mine as well.

If you're paid salary, both of you work 50 hours, 40 billable and 10 non-billable, both of you have 100% utilization on a 40 hour basis. The boss won't care- even when he bids the next job and bases it on the last one where you worked 50 to bill 40. But something you can show on paper and he can't is how many hours you actually worked during the year. Comes in handy when salary or bonus negotiations come up.

 

[swivel63]

i haven't clocked my hours before. because i was learning. i shouldn't charge for learning.

 

[LUDPEKA1]

I think people are mixing legal with ethical. As stated what the coworker is doing is legal but not in its truest form “ethical”. imho

 

[shacked]

Ron, I am curious as to how you can determine someones "attitude" from words alone. So please explain to me what my attitude is from my initial post.

I guess I was just curious as to how others would handle this, but like others have said, you can't. If this guy wants to work for free, then that is his problem.

swivel63. I don't know why engineers think like this. I say B.S. Any other job that I have ever had in my life I was reimbursed for my time no matter if I was learning or not.
As a structural engineer you are always learning.

Finally just to clarify, I do like what I do, but if I could afford to I wouldn't work. I would be doing other things that I enjoy more.

So this isn't just some "job" to me, it is more then that, but it also does not consume my entire life.

 

[PeterKsiazek]

Ludpeka1,

Just to clarify your statement, depending on the jurisdiction and the manor and the classification of employee the individual may be doing something illegal. In Canada it is illegal for an individual to not enter time they have worked if they are an hourly employee. I worked for a sales company while I was in school and a number of employees were doing this to improve their 'sales/hour' rating (the company was turning a blind eye, but management knew about it). CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) found out and both the company and the individuals had more than their wrists slapped.

 

[ash9144]

I don't know of any salaried engineers getting working 40 hour weeks and calling it good.
I do know the girl at Starbucks works a 40 hour week and it is good.

I think the term unethical is being thrown out in place of the phrase "I don't want to".

 

[DWHA]

I would approach my boss in front of the golden boy and ask how to handle the situation. I would ask "when I am working on a project and get interupted by phone calls, how should I charge it? Would you rather me not mark down the hours, or mark them as general?" If your boss is worth working for he will tell you mark the hours down as general or bill them to the job the questions are coming from. This covers you butt, and it will be stated in front of the golden boy. Now everyone is on the same page and one of you is not doing what the boss wants.