Definition of an Engineer 26

[Ashereng]

I recently brought my little ones to my office, to see where I work.

They have only seen me "colour" my drawing, and working on my computer at home, and seem to think that engineering consists of:
1) drinking a lot of coffee (yes, I am cutting back)
2) colouring (I do a lot of back checking and review)
3) surfing the web (I do a lot of design and sizing on my computer)

However, this descripton aside, how would you describe/define engineering to a group of Grade 10s? I don't mean the specific type of engineers, like a piping engineer works on a project to bring oil from Alaska to Texas, but more generic

What does an "engineer" do?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[TurbulentFluid]

Grr, here's what I meant:

I got myself a software called "Language Engineering Dictionary". As I'm not a native English speaker, I thought this was a dictionary of technical English which would be most helpful with my work, as most of the stuff I have to write or read is in English (even though I'm in my homeland where English isn't the 1st language).
But it's not.
It's a tool for "language engineering".
Come ON.

 

[WinniPEng]

I would define an engineer as a 'responsible builder'

Engineers use scientific principles to ensure that what they design will function properly and safely, yet also make sure it's not more costly than it needs to be.

 

[Ashereng]

WinniPEng,

That description isn't really unique. A responsible builder could also be the carpenter framing my house.

Do you agree?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[niallmacdubhghaill]

I think that there should be a necessity to be either a Chartered or Professional Engineer (depending on geographical location)in order to practice as an engineer. I think institutions like AIChE, IChemE, IEI and any other engineering institutions should have more international co-accreditation such that only indivuduals with the requisite education can hold the title "Engineer". It would take time, but if companies were to begin instituting a requirement to have a PE or CEng status to become a senior engineer, I think in the long run it would be better for all of us.

 

[GregLocock]

Can you explain why, exactly? And how would you enforce comity? and equal standards worldwide?

I'm not against the idea as such, I've just never run into an Institute (or equivalent) that I'd desperately want to be a member of, to misquote Groucho.

To give one example. In the UK as a broad brush the engineering institutions are largely concerned with providing an ever increasing number of graduates into industry so that our wages remain low due to competition from the untrainedor inexperienced.

Meanwhile on the other side of the Atlantic most state PE organisations have non-compete clauses so that our wages remain low due to 'competition' from the inefficient.

Good innit?

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[niallmacdubhghaill]

regarding conformity, it would be up to the relevant institutions to agree on standards, but I cant imagine that there would be a huge difference in standards between chartered and professional engineers on both sides of the atlantic. I would not suggest that engineering become a unionised profession, or anything like it. I think that that goes against everything we work for (efficiency, productivity etc) but I just feel that as a profession, we should have a more powerful advocate group who would have many duties, including protection of the title "engineer" and the disemination of information to the general public regarding what I regard as essentially propaganda propagated by various governments/environmental groups/citizen groups regarding issues such as global warming/waste treatment and disposal/energy. I have a very limited understanding of the PE system in the US, and it seems that these licences differ state to state, which is not helpful, and I dont understand what you mean my "non-compete clauses" but it sounds daft to me. I think that many institutions exist, their level of effectiveness can be questioned.

 

[Ashereng]

Greg, Niall,

This sounds like a good topic for a new thread.

I am still trying to find a good definition of what an engineer is. It seems that after 80 replys here, people still can't agree on what an engineer is, does. If we can't agree, how is the general public going to understand what we do?

When we say doctors, we typically think of the GP or surgeon, even though there are a whole host of other doctors who do very different things.

We we say engineers, we can't think of one or two definitive images. Hence, people don't understand us, what we do. Can we blame them for using engineer after "convenience engineer", "audio installation engineer", "office efficiency engineer" and "garage door installation engineer"?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[niallmacdubhghaill]

Agreed.

 

[bedstead]

definition of engineer:

the ability to reasonably predetermine or predict an outcome.

 

[HgTX]

That applies to a number of fields, not just engineering.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[TurbulentFluid]

I think engineering field has grown too big to make a 1-sentence definition, or anything even remotely close to it. It goes for other professions too. EG, when you say "doctor is a person who heals/cures people", how does this apply to, for instance, plastic surgeons who specialise in beauty treatment?

 

[Ashereng]

TurbulentFluid,

That is the beauty of it. The doctors/medical profession focus the definition of their profession to one or two definitive images. This makes it easier for the general public to understand what they do and appreciate the value they provide.

Engineers/engineering's does not have a cohesive definitive image. What wepresent is so fratured that the general public is confused, and so they dismiss the value that we offer. What the general public sees is "If they can't tell me what they do, then it must not be very important."

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[flch95]

i think the engineering profession and the title is abused in some areas. where i'm from there really isn't any governing body that regulates the profession. they don't know what engineering really is. as a consequence, it seems that anyone does anything remotely technical can and do call themselves engineers and there isn't anyone to stop them. you have technicians, electricians and service people calling themselves engineers. where i work, i tell them i have an engineering degree and think i can function as an industrial electrician; two completely different animals altogether. i just don't think its supposed to work that way.

 

[Ashereng]

Where are you from?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[flch95]

Ashereng,

i'm from the caribbean. i'm not staying here as i mentioned in another thread. its funny how they always complain that the young people don't want to stay here or come back once we're gone but when we do they proceed to do nothing with us. we have tons of people on my island with engineering degrees as well. i'm an operator at a power plant on temp contract; i hate it and am not really suited for it. its the best i can do now though. i'm considering other career options once i move to canada other than engineering.

 

[Twoballcane]

flch95,
Im not from Canada, but to my understanding, in Canada they have a strong Engineering Society. However, I do know your disappointment of loosing your Engineering Identity to technicians or even to the guy how cleans buildings (janitorial engineering).


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[nate2003]

Getting back to the original post, I have a feeling that most of you haven’t given tours to groups of school kids in your workplace, because most of your clichés and one-liners would make the average person even more oblivious to what engineers do. Remember who the audience is. My simple explanation would be something like this:

Engineers design and build everything from computer chips and polymers to car engines, dams, bridges and spaceships. They combine technology with their strong backgrounds in math and science to create safe and reliable systems and processes that benefit all of society. Virtually every product and service that we enjoy today can be directly attributed to the work of an engineer.

There are many types of engineers. The typical minimum requirement for an engineer is a bachelor’s degree in one of the basic engineering disciplines, such as civil, mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc. Many engineers go on to advanced degrees in more specific fields (aerospace, oil and gas, computer software, plastics, automotive). In many circumstances, engineers are required to be licensed to do certain types of work. The job functions of an engineer can vary greatly from intensive design calculations, to hands-on R&D, to supervising large construction projects.

An engineering degree gives a person a well rounded technical education. Some other professions prefer and/or require an engineering background. Many astronauts, fighter pilots, and plant managers have engineering backgrounds that are crucial to their abilities to perform their job responsibilities.

That’s how I would explain it to a group of kids.



"I have had my results for a long time, but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them." Karl Friedrich Gauss

 

[electricpete]

How 'bout: Engineers make lots of money (when they first get out of school). That'll get the kids attention.

We won't tell them what usually happens 5/10/20 years down the road.

=====================================
Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

 

[Ashereng]

My kids ask me what does a doctor do daddy?

I answer, they make people well again.


No offense nate, as accurate and complete as your definition of what an engineer does, it is still confusing to me.

I would prefer a more succinct definition like "a doctor makes people well again", for engineers.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[nate2003]

So Ashereng,
Do you think it is possible to arrive at such a definition as diverse a group as we are? Obviously we would have to find a definition that applies to all engineers and excludes all other professions.

What is the common denominator for engineers? I think that it would have to be design. Yes, other people design things, such as artists, but there is a difference in the process, so we have to distinguish from that as well.

In a short simple definition then, I would say that "engineers are technical designers". Whether it be a product, a system, or a process, engineers in their true sense are designers of something. True, many engineers do non-engineering things such as managing, leading improvement teams, supervising construction crews, etc. but those activities I believe are outside of our engineering definition. Just as I'm sure doctors do other things besides making people well again like managing and coaching little league.






"I have had my results for a long time, but I do not yet know how I am to arrive at them." Karl Friedrich Gauss