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Degradation of Drawing Standards 13

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chancey

chancey

Mechanical
Aug 1, 2001
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Ok I am not old old school because I didn’t start on the board but has anyone else noticed the degradation of drawing standards? I think this really boils down to the use of CAD. Now that most packages have become easier to use (unlike the early versions of Pro E & MDT) I think more people are creating drawings. Things I see a lot of are missing hidden lines (I understand clarity reasons), lack of centerlines, dimensioning with disregard to intent (like not coming from datums), lack of tolerance consideration (like 3place decimals throughout), dimensioning to hidden lines, poor overall dimensioning & view layout, over crowding, etc. And god forbid they try to use GD & T.

I must just be getting older and grumpier…
 
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A real eye-opener for some management types is to collect the cost of changes through your ECO/DCN process to correct poor drawings. Once you give them "hard proof" over a 6mos or year period, the resistance goes down a bit (until the next pressing project).
Click to expand...

Of course, the flip side of this is that they will simply want to loosen the drawing criteria or try to drop drawings altogether (all without putting the necessary data that used to be on the drawing anywhere else).

Matt Lorono
CAD Engineer/ECN Analyst
Silicon Valley, CA
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources
Co-moderator of Solidworks Yahoo! Group
and Mechnical.Engineering Yahoo! Group
 
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I'd assumed that, as here, once rully released the only stuff that gets ECO'd due to 'poor drawings' is normally the stuff where the poor drawing has actually caused a hick-up in production.

I don't think I've ever seen an ECO change to a fully released drawing purely because someone noticed something they didn't like without it causing production issues.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:
 
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KENAT said:
I don't think I've ever seen an ECO change to a fully released drawing purely because someone noticed something they didn't like without it causing production issues.
Click to expand...

Ha, Kenat. Your branch is definitely different from mine... That happens about once a month, here.

V
 
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Same here, KENAT. If it wasn't caught by whoever checked and approved it, it would stay unless it actually effected part fabrication. If an ECO did have to be written, then the little stuff could be corrected at that time with little extra effort.

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the - the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." - [small]George Bush, Washington DC, 27 October, 2003[/small]
 
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Around here, drawing changes that don't effect fabrication are noted and changed after the part is out the door. It's simply a lot simplier and less paperwork if the change is for a possible future fabrication than a work in progress...

Unfortunately, by the time the project is complete, the person with the notes has a new project in their lap and rarely do the drawings actually get corrected...
 
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Yeah, that happened to me on my first big job.

The Project Manager caught me updating drawings after the units for his project were fabricated, and put a stop to it, rightly from one perspective, since HIS project was done.

Then I got laid off because all my stuff worked and they didn't need me anymore.

Then they got contracts for more, built them to the obsolete prints, and got to do some serious re-work. For which they revised the prints.

I heard from my friends that they blamed me for not updating the drawings. Hey, I tried.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
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Engineers are NOT draftsmen. I didn't go to engineering school to learn how to make drawings. The real problem with crummy drawings is 100% the fault of corproate management. The bean counters hear how "easy" CAD programs are and the wheels start spinning. They figure they can save a mint by laying of the drafting department and making the engineers do their own drawings. These decision makers don't understand, nor do they care about drafting standards.

Apparently companies today see little value in checking either. Both my current employer and previous employer once upon a time had a very senior designer with the officoal title "checker". These positions went away at some point and now drawing are typically only checked by the person who created them.

My current company has grown about threefold in the engineering/drafting department over the past year. With people of all different experience levels we are seeing errors go up. I am really pushing to bring back some sort of formalized checking process.
 
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I'm shopping at a place where drawings standards ARE enforced--a So. California aerospace plant. They have been trying for a few months to hire a couple of Senior Checkers, 20+ years experience, direct or contract. Can't find them. Those that have responded so far think the know checking, but they don't.
 
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I have to side with spongebob here. While it is his responsibility to learn enough to draft effectively, it is really up to management to see that he gets the guidance required to achieve this, thus they should bring back the checkers.
I still avoid checking my own work unless I haven't looked at it for a period of time. It is to easy to be blind to your own mistakes.

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the - the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." - [small]George Bush, Washington DC, 27 October, 2003[/small]
 
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Sshh CheckerRon. Our 2 contract checkers might hear you and they live closer to your place than ours.

I'm not sure I can take doing it all by myself again;-).

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:
 
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Oh I wasn't knocking the point about checkers, I think my views on that are well documented.

I also agree that in many situations it's probably more efficient for dedicated designer/drafters to do most of the detailing.

However, if your job description (be it formal or just reality) requires you to do drafting I figure you either learn to do it, or find another job. I get sick of Engineers saying they didn't go to school to learn drafting etc. complaining about it all the time & churning out crap making little to no effort to improve. Either accept that the reality of work isn't what you expected and learn to do it (at least until you're in a position to change things), or find another job.

I learnt barely any drafting at uni but it was required by my first job so I learnt to do it, and I think reasonably well, mostly by having my drawings bled on as well as by looking at the standards and good examples.

I am also certainly not absolving management for their part in creating this issue.


KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:
 
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I think we're on the same side here. If it is an engineers task to create drawings, he should learn to do it correctly. Having someone to bleed all over your drawings is a VERY effective way to learn the proper way to create them, and for that management needs to recognize the value of employing checkers.
I took drafting classes all through high school, aced my college drafting classes, but still had drawings with more red than white in them when I was first employed as a drafter. It is unrealistic to expect engineers with little drafting training to create mistake free drawings without oversite.

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the - the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." - [small]George Bush, Washington DC, 27 October, 2003[/small]
 
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I agree the engineers will benefit from feeback, but a lot don't seem to care or try to get better. I'll redline the same kind of errors today as I did on the same persons drawings a year ago.

On the other hand, while not succesful, I always aimed to not make the same mistake twice.

I also didn't just rely on the redlining, I'd ask questions and do my own research of the standards etc. While a few people here occasionally ask questions up front, the only guy that would do his own research left about 6 months ago.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:
 
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I know the feeling of correcting the same mistakes a year later... [banghead]
It seems like the most effective way to get it into their heads is to hold up a hot project that they are responsible for until they produce a good drawing. Do that a few times, and they generally get the message that if they want it out the door quickly, they have to start paying more attention. Of course, you do that at your own risk.
Most days though, I feel it's a losing battle. Regardless, I still dig in my heels when it comes to acceptable drawings.

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the - the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." - [small]George Bush, Washington DC, 27 October, 2003[/small]
 
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