DESIGN TABLE EXAPNSION

[RACERXXX]

Hello all,

I am currently working on a Pin Base model that is utilizing a design table to modify and create different configurations. My current model is of a 4 x 4 array with pin holes and pins. No problem. I can input the pitch, array size, locations, and pin dia in one excel "Input" sheet. All calculations for X and Y locations are done for me and automaticaly copies to the Solid works "Design Table" sheet (pretty cool). My predicament is; now that I've figured out how to control each individual feature (suppresion, dims, etc.), Iv'e run into a brick wall. The above mentioned model is only a 4 x 4 test platform. I need to do the same with a 41 x 41 model. To do this I must have close to 15,000 collumns. As you all know, the Excel spread sheet can only support up to 256 collumns (scrolling to R.H. side, not down), it ends at collumn "IV". I would like to know if anyone out there knows how to add collumn cells to the spread sheet or how to link sheets that Solid Works will recognize as part of the same sheet? Another angle might be to change the way solid works references data in the excel spread sheet. I.E. instead of referencing cells for one configuration left to right, changing the setting to reference cells top to bottom. Don't know if this is possible. Can anyone help me with this. Basically, I need a way to access more column cells to be able to support 15000 features in the same model. I don't want multiple models, only one.

There is a user in here by the name of cknull that explains he is handling 4000 dimensions in one excel spread sheet. Obviously he has found a way to change more than 256 features in the same model. does anyone know how to contact him through this site? I do not see a function where I can present him with this question directly.

 

[DetroitPickles]

I am not sure about what I am reading, but is your 4x4 or 41x41 array really an array as in a pattern? Or are each pins set at unique spacing that isn't a pattern?


Mr. Pickles

 

[RACERXXX]

Hello,

Thank you for the response.

Yes, it is a pattern. Please excuse the lengthy explanation. It is only to clarify in full what I am doing, and why I need so many cells.
My model is of a pin base used to interface PCB's to mother boards. As is now it is only a 4X4 (built to test this theory), but I must increase the array size to a 41x41 to meet our requirements. The spacing of the holes (one to another) is determined by a pitch dimension. These can vary from 1mm, 1.27mm (.050&quot, and 2.54mm (.100&quot. The size of the pattern is determined by the size of the array. I.E. 12x12, 20x20, 35x35 etc. Sometimes we get odd arrays such as 10x5 or 20x6. Creating these drawings for fabrication and customer approval has become a monumental task and is quite time consuming. I know I can have solid works control this array with the array function but 95% of the time I will have unpopulated pins (no holes required) in the middle of the array and in the corners. I must have control of this. I've tried using the copy or array feature but if I suppress a hole that was used to copy or array other holes they all disappear. No problem, the way around that is to create one hole with pin, copy to the clip board (CTL C) then select a face on my model and paste from the clip board (CTL V). Now I can select pins at will and suppress them without affecting the rest of them. Because of this hurdle I've found myself having to call out each and every X and Y dimension for every hole (relative to a corner) , as well as the suppression. Still No problem. I've inserted extra sheets into my excel file to calculate the X and Y location for every hole and it also controls the suppression. I.E. If I start with a 41x41 model "Template” at a 1mm pitch but I want a 10x10 at 1.27mm pitch, I simply type in my new variables into my "INPUT" sheet in Excel and it updates all of the X Y dims, and places "S" in all pins not being used for me. I've also devised a way to select pins in the array though a table in Excel that are to be unpopulated.

All this is good and well for a 4x4 model. I can do every thing I set out to do. My problem is; each C.B. hole with pin requires 9 controlling features.

1) X dim
2) Y dim
3) Hole suppression
4) Hole diameter
5) Pin suppression
6) Top of pin suppression
7) Top of pin fillet
8) Bottom of pin suppression
9) Bottom of pin fillet

(I may be able to do without the hole dim and top of pin fillet).

As you can see, a 4x4 pattern requires 144 (112 best case) column cells. Well within the Excel spread sheet range. But, going to a 41x41 is going to require at least 13000 to 15000 cells! I know this sounds like allot to manage but the Excel sheets do it all for me. In short, I need to find a way to have solid works recognize all these features for the same model instance.

Best regards,

 

[TheTick]

What about using "Skip Instances" when in your pattern?

On justice and on friendship, there is no price, but there are established credit limits.

 

[DetroitPickles]

Racer...

Can you use the regular ole Array command and just control the Suppression of the individual pins from a spreadsheet, if of course the "Skip Instances" that TheTick mentioned isn't what you want?

Unless I am missing something, it seems like too much trouble to have the spreadsheet control the X,Y of each hole, top pin, bottom pin, etc.


Mr. Pickles

 

[RACERXXX]

Tick/Detroit,

Thanks for the advice. I'll check out the "Skip" function and let you know if it gets me where I need to go. My only concern is that one would need to be familiar with Solid Works to be able to modify the model.


Controlling the Suppression of the holes from the spreadsheet after creating the holes from an array is not doable. Reason is: If I create the array from a hole that needs to be suppressed then all holes referencing the original hole also suppress.

My goal is to make this as simple as possible for anyone to change the model without having to know much about Solid Works. I think I mentioned that we often have to come up with conceptual drawings for customers to review and edit as required. This takes up allot of engineering time. Sometimes after all is said and done the customer goes with a different design altogether (wasted time).

My spreadsheet is already set up to handle all the X and Y dims as well as the suppression features. Not hard at all. These inputs are calculated automatically and placed into the Solid Works D.T. for updating. All one has to know is the pitch, array size, unpopulated hole positions, and how to type. Opening the model and the D.T. is pretty simple. From there all they have to do is type in the above mentioned variables.

Our sales dept. and management teams are looking for a way to produce models/drawings for the customer on the fly (while on the phone). We're even exploring the idea of having a spreadsheet with an array for hole "X" outs, and above variables on our web site for download. We would simply copy and paste there numbers into our D.T. spread sheet and Whala! Done!

I've proven this to be possible with the 3x4 model I created as a test platform.

I'll get back to you on the "Skip" function. In the meantime do you know of a way for a Solid Works model/D.T. to recognize more than the 256 columns for the same instance.

If anyone is interested, I'd be willing to give a copy of the 3x4 model so you can see first hand what I've done and what I'm talking about. As long as you are comfortable, please include your E-mail address and I'll send to you. This is not "Top Secret" stuff and I do have my Co. blessings to do so.

Best regards,

Racerxxx

 

[TheTick]

My email address is in my profile.

On justice and on friendship, there is no price, but there are established credit limits.

 

[DetroitPickles]

Racerxxx,

I strongly think Excel can NOT do wider than the IV (256) column limit.

How about this scenario. Use VBA to do the dirty work for you. If you make a worksheet in Excel ask the normal questions like # of vertical pins, # of horizontal pins, spacing, etc., then have each cell in the specified array have an X in it or something. If the sales dude doesn't want that pin, he deletes the X.

You put a button on there that has the VB code for the X,Y dimensions in it. You click the button and it sends the patterned info to the SW model, including checking for no X to unsuppress that occurance.

Send the example to me at craig@okswug.com and I'll look along with TheTick...


Mr. Pickles

 

[RACERXXX]

FYI,

There was a question posed in the past that was replied to by "cknull". The question does not apply to my problem but does have an insight into my problem. Here is cknulls answer:

"We have had this problem when regenerating large parts that are driven by Excel spreadsheets as well. Our solution was to add this line at the start of the macro:

Application.DisplayAlerts = False

FYI, our parts are driven with over 4000 linked dimensions between Solidworks and Excel.

This seemed to help us, I hope it helps you."

Note the third paragraph: "FYI, our parts are driven with over 4000 linked dimensions between Solidworks and Excel."

It gives the impression it can be done through Excel.

Can't seem to locate cknull. Help.

 

[TheTick]

RacerXXX:

I have looked at the model you sent. I have not found a way to incorporate skipped instances of a pattern into a design table.

Two possible workarounds:
1.) Use a sketch driven pattern with a pattern of points. Then the same sketch can drive all patterns.
2.) Use table driven pattern. However, this does not support a "live link" to source data.

On justice and on friendship, there is no price, but there are established credit limits.

 

[cknull]

What we are doing to link the dimensions are using a version of a small utility off of the solidworks website called "Excel To SolidWorks Link Template" by Rick Chin. This is a little VB program that allows you to link any particular cell to any dimension in Solidworks. So, now you can run you spreadsheet vertically instead. In the "design table" you have a sheet with your dimensions,formula,etc. along with the normal design table sheet, and a links sheet that lists all of the linked cells.

My recommednation is to set up the first hole how you want it with everything linked up and then in excel copy and paste the links. It would take along time to link all of cells and dimensions individually. Also, the more links, the slower things happen.

I hope this helps. I'll try and add my e-mail address to my profile.

 

[DetroitPickles]

I do what CKNULL is talking about. I have a spreadsheet that controls ALL my "changeable" dimensions. I click on button (or a hotkey) and Excel pumps out the correct values to each of the corresponding dimensions.

I also use a VBA routine to control the Suppression and Unsuppression (resolve) of the different components, the configuration of some components. Also, before I open any of the Solidworks files, I push Properties to all the files so when I open them, the Customer, Job No., etc. is already there.

The problem I see with the array example is that you have to know what the dimensions ARE, so Excel can send the values to them. That is easy if you want to do it this way, since you could start with the LARGEST possible array to get all the names, then suppress the ones not needed.

But, I think you don't want that, since it would be slow to setup origianlly. I think you need a macro that does the array, and then turns off the ones you don't want. But that may be harder than it sounds. I got your test file, so I will look at it.


Mr. Pickles

 

[StarrRider]

Andrzej01

You might want to consider using 2 macros. The first would create the holes and dump the feature and dimension names into the excel spreadsheet. The second would be Mr Pickles routine to control suppression states ect.

Lee

It really IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you!

 

[cknull]

We use to macros, one to control the dimensions, and one to control the supression states.

 

[StarrRider]

CkNull

That is fine with me <Chuckle>. My point was related to Mr Pickles comment about the number of features names and dimension names that would have to be added to the spreadsheet.
A very simple macro could be used to create all of the holes and dump the feature names and dimension names into the excel spreadsheet. It would never be used again once the part was created, unless of course, RacerXXX decided to create a series of templates for each size of pin block.

Lee

Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.

 

[lucason]

Racerxxx

Don't want to sound like a salesman here but I know of an add-in that could possibly help you.
In effect this acts as a design table but allows you to control many more parameters than you require across your parts or even entire assemblies. It also allows for much more complex and intelligent calculations to be applied to any captured parameter, all via a front end form, which in turn can be rolled out for use by people who don't want to know how to use SolidWorks and they don't need it installed(which you mention is an issue for you). The add-in then automates the generating of models, drawings, eDrawings etc. and even any documentation you may require.

Check out

http://www.driveworks.co.uk

Hope this helps