Do You Include ALL NUTS and BOLTS in Your Assemblies? 2

[UncleJess]

I am using SolidWorks 2006. I try my hardest to use SolidWorks properly, so that I can take advantage of all of its automated functions. Therefore, I have a tendency to include all nuts, bots, washers, etc. in my assemblies, so that I do not have to overide any quantities in my BOMs. I try not to overide the BOMs because I loose connectivity (that just doesn't sit well with me). Am I just being anal? What do you folks do to address this issue? Is there a better way to trick the BOM, other than overiding the QTY. directly? Thank you very much.

I am eager to read any thoughts or comments on this topic!

 

[MadMango]

Our product models run an average of 700-1000 components, including hardware such as nuts and bolts. We place everything in our assemblies.

Linear Patterns work well.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

I always create an accurate model complete with all hardware.

Yes the BOM can be modified to suit whatever information you care to include, but if you call up a hardware-less assy into another product & then do an indented BOM, the required hardware will not be listed.

Some users include the correct quantities of hardware, but place them at one position on top of each other.
Others place "dummy" parts (parts with no geometry, just properties) either on top of each other or place them using feature (or other) patterns to get the quantities associative.

You are not "being anal" ... you are using the software the way it was intended and IMO the best way.


Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091

 

[SolidAir]

We also try to include all hardware in our assemblies. Our hope is in the near future to add routing.

SA

 

[ScottHeiden]

We include all hardware in our assemblies, too. We use the BOM to generate costs for quoting and also to generate our part orders from a .CSV copy of the BOM. It's fast and 100% accurate.

 

[ctopher]

ditto

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[AnnaWood]

We like to show all of our hardware. We use holes wizard holes and patterned features to take advantage of quickly placing components with feature driven patterns.

It is amazing how many problems one finds and corrects before they hit the manufacturing floor when adding all the hardware.

Regards,

Anna Wood
SW06 SP4.1 x64, WinXP x64
Dell Precision 380, Pentium D940, 4 Gigs RAM, FX3450

http://www.auerprecision.com

 

[ng89]

We very rarely show hardware. There is just too much work to do here, and not enough engineers to spend the time required to insert all the hardware.

We usually start an empty excel table in the drawing, make it the same size as our BOM, stick it underneath the BOM, then put the hardware on that. We usually have anywhere from 20-50 unique components and subassemblies in an assembly, so we'll start numbering the hardware at 61 or 101, or whatever nubmer makes sense - one that we know the assebmly parts will never get to.

Then we put balloons and stacked balloons where the hardware would go and add custom numbers to them.

 

[ongybill]

I usually add all the hardware. Also using patterns to simplify placements. But I then create a folder called fasteners and place all the hardware in that folder. That allows me to hide/show all hardware by right-clicking on the folder.

Speeds things up with big assys if you can easily hide the hardware.

 

[drawoh]

UncleJess,

I have just completed the design of a steel space frame, screwed together Meccano style. The design made it difficult to take advantage of the component patterns, inserting around eighty fastener instances was a pain in the ass.

While installing the fasteners, I observed that many of my nuts were not sufficiently accessible to be turned by wrenches. I fixed the problem easily in SolidWorks. It would have been a mess at assembly time.

When I was done, I copied my parts list out of SolidWorks into a company purchase requisition I have hacked to conform to SolidWorks. I have no intention of ever going into the drawing and calculating the number of holes and the number of fasteners required. I do not even want to do this once, much less do it every time I need to know how many fasteners there are.

There is also the not so minor matter of correctly specifying how long the bolts are.

The standard excuse for not adding hardware is that there is no time. Usually, there is also no time to prepare purchase requisitions (production can figure it out) and provide assembly help. The the people in engineering who do try to do all this stuff find out that production cannot be bothered to read drawings anymore. I think this is all connected.

JHG

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

ng89 ... It would be quicker, especially if changes are made, to just add the hardware as intended ... but whichever suits you best I suppose.


Helpful SW websites FAQ559-520
How to get answers to your SW questions FAQ559-1091

 

[ctopher]

I always insert the hardware. It shows me nom stackup pictorially and used for BOM's.
Without them you can screw up a design and drive you nuts finding where the errors are.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[smcadman]

We add all hardware in our assemblies for the same reason that AnnaWood and drawoh pointed out. There have been times that either there is interference with the hardware, or we find that we may not be able to access the hardware with tools for tightening. There is a saying that may be a cliche', but it's worth repeating:
"If you have time to do it twice, you have time to do it right the first time!"

We do not add powder-coat color and texture on our BOM's, that is done on our routing system (Made2manage), but some will add an empty part in the assembly for paint, adhesives, etc.

Flores
SW06 SP4.1

 

[SBaugh]

I would only include them if its going ot make a difference int he BOM or in the design itself, otherwise I would leave them out, because that just creates more performance issues etc...

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP

http://www.scottjbaugh.com

faq731-376

 

[cdennyb]

We have a small number of fasteners (less than a hundred pieces total), bolts/nuts/hose clamps/etc. and only show a basic "set" of hardware pieces assembled together (i.e. only one bracket and associated hardware to check length, diameter, placment, etc.) and hide the balance we've put in there so it'll still show in the BOM. We make one config that shows "EVERYTHING!" and one with limited for visual checking like interference, tool access, etc. This helps speed up the rebuilds, rotation of assembly, etc. Of course we use the hell out of patterns every chance we get and sometimes make small sub-assemblies of a particular bolt/washer/lock/nut pattern so it's easier to handle in upper top assemblies.

 

[ShaggyPE]

on a similar note to what cdennyb brings up... In situations where patterns won't work, create a subassembly of the hardware stack-up (as cdennyb mentioned). Insert this into the assembly wherever needed. Within the assembly, dissolve the subassembly. This will save you a lot of time by allowing you to not replicate coincident, concentric, and parallel mates.

Just make sure your subassembly (the hardware stackup) doesn't have any mates to the subassembly (planes etc) only with the other components.

-Shaggy

 

[neilc78]

I leave out nuts, bolts, washers etc for two main reasons..

1. It is a pain putting them in.
2. When you have a large machine assembly you start to see serious slow downs after adding them.

I wouldn't bother putting these on a BOM either. In our case you just average out how many of these small components you use per annum and divide by the amount of machines. Now set it up on your MRP system that each machine draws down X amount of nuts and Y amount of washers. To control stock levels set up a minimum weight of these and top up to some pre determined level when you hit the minimum. To control which nuts, bolts and washer are used on the floor we have Works Instructions that list the types of nuts/bolts/washers to use on certain types of application.

 

[MadMango]

Shaggy, after you Dissolve the subassy, what do you do, Fix the parts?

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ctopher]

If you use smart fasteners, and make all part lightweight in the assy, and system is setup correctly, there shouldn't be in problems showing hardware.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[ShaggyPE]

MadMango,
The subassembly has all the necessary mates between the components to lock them down (with the exception of the clamping thickness if it uses a nut). It has no mates to the origin or planes of that subassembly. When the subassembly is inserted it is mated to the hole. Only a concentric, coincident, and a parallel (also a second coincident if the stackup uses a nut) are necessary. When the subassembly is disolved, the mates between all of the parts remain.

This method does not help the issue of having a lot of mates in the top level assy, but it will speed up the process of inserting a lot of similar fastener stackups where patterns won't work.

-Shaggy