Eficient Design????? 2

[CORDVI]

Hi every one!
I am Mechanical Designer, I design machines and fixtures. In my work we have a lot of problems with the time of the design. Some times our clients ask for machines or fixtures in a very short time, and that make that the work we do has a lots of re-works.

I like to know your experiences in the proces of design. If you have standar materials, standar bolts, etc.?

I like to know about your organization.

Sorry about my englis. I hope that you can help whit your experience. Thank.

 

[sancat]

Hi
Well, we do much what you do, "inventors for hire". In my experience, we have been very happy to have recently a second order for some of our designs, but most times it is a one time solution, with possible application of some subsystems of it in the future. It is not that our inventions do not work, sometimes they take a little longer, but so far we have completed more than 1000, between small pieces and complete systems. What do we do is to talk a lot with the client to see what he "really" needs (and not only what he "wants&quot, then we do a hand draft, if complicated we make a rapid draft by cad. Then we quote. If accepted we work details, present again the design to the client, and finally we build the solution.
This is the theoric process. Actually steps are much fuzzier, and some clients push for faster approaches with a sacrifice in efficiency. But they are the bosses...
hth sancat

 

[MadMango]

I was told a long time ago, there are 3 factors to designing an end product.

1. Time
2. Quality
3. Cost

You can only pick two of the above, and your choice will effect the third factor.

If you want something quick, it's going to drive cost up and lower quality.

If you want something high quality, it's going to drive cost up and take a long time.

If you want something cheap, the quality will suffer, but will be quick.

I'm sure there are other various you can figure out. "The attempt and not the deed confounds us."

 

[GregLocock]

We used to say:

FAST, CHEAP, GOOD

Pick two!



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[tapetotape]

we still say:
fast, cheap, good
pick two and be happy if you get one!

 

[GregLocock]

Cynic.

That made me laugh. Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[CORDVI]

Thanks for the quick resposes.

What about the the way you are organizated?

There are diferents theories to control the quality of one product (for example six sigma), and I like to know if some similar can be aplyed to the process of design?

 

[Speedy]

"To spot the expert, pick the one who predicts the job will take the longest and cost the most."
This is from the 'Murphy's Law' website.I think there is a lot of truth in this.
Speedy

"Tell a man there are 300 billion stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure."

 

[Hush]

I once was read or told that 70% of a products cost was fixed at the design stage. That actually seems low to me. Any quality or productivity improvement method (that actually works) can and should be applied at the design stage. Probably before anywhere else since that is where you'll realize the greatest gains.

 

[abeltio]

If you really want to complicate things... use six sigma
a.

 

[Viktor]

"If you really want to complicate things... use six sigma" - I would add - with no results.
Viktor

http://viktorastakhov.tripod.com

 

[GregLocock]

Does anybody use six sigma at the design stage? Technically it is just a rag-bag of stuff we've seen before. The useful part is that it provides a reasonably rigorous framework for analysis and reporting, which coupled with its 'mystical' reputation amongst management means we actually see resources allocated and things getting done, which is nice. It has certainly been cost effective in our organisation, just in terms of warranty reduction, where it has been used to fix problems that we always knew about but always fell to the bottom of the priority list.

I guess the reliability/robustness concepts would be useful in the design phase, although anyone who is designing complex systems outside of six sigma without at least an intuitive grasp of the robustness ideas will be struggling already. Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[Viktor]

Greg

I am a dummy – explain me please the difference between six sigma and total quality.
Viktor

http://viktorastakhov.tripod.com

 

[GregLocock]

The difference is we pay a royalty on six sigma training?

I don't know enough about TQ to comment. I do know you aren't a dummy!

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[sancat]

Excuse my ignorance, but, Is it possible to apply TQ or any other quality control scheme to design? I think you would be able to control that things are not unfinished and are designed <<right>>, but since design involves creativity, How will you measure that it has been done with the appropriate balance of resources: time / performance / cost, as above defined?
IMHO design is closer to an artist work, and that is hardly evaluable through a quality control scheme. An exception would be the case of designing things that are very similar, in that case you would be able to analyze the process, but I am not sure if that kind of design is common.
sancat

 

[Viktor]

Greg

I have another “simple” question (dummy is dummy, forgive my ignorance). Ford is an active promoter of six sigma. Moreover, they have the greatest numbers of black belts (“per capita”). I am wondering naively if it helped improving the quantity and reliability of their cars? What is the efficiency of implementing this program defined as the amount of money invested /quality improvement? Viktor

http://viktorastakhov.tripod.com

 

[GregLocock]

I don't know about the organisation as a whole, but in our little bit of it in Australia six sigma is definitely a success. It is obviously very difficult to assess the impact on quality, since there is no 'control' in this experiment, all I can say is that we are on track for our year on year improvements in customer satisfaction and new vehicle quality.

Probably the biggest bottom line contributor at the moment is warranty reduction. Traditionally warranty reduction has been part of a design engineer's job, but he is usually too stressed getting the next model out to worry overmuch about the current, or past, cars. Having a group of reasonably motivated people dedicated to solving problems has made a big difference.

The reason that it works is not the methodology, although that is slightly better than what we had before. The big plus is that the entire organisation, from top to bottom, has decided to use it, or at least won't stand in its way. If a project has a demonstrable positive return then it will probably get funded (they rank them somehow, but I haven't heard of a sensible project getting turned down yet).

Mind you, it isn't roses all the way, sucking many of our more talented/ambitious engineers out of the main programs into six sigma for a couple of years must have an impact on the quality of the design job. Hopefully that is a just a short term hit and the long term benefits will more than compensate.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[sancat]

Greg,
As I understand, there is a device that has some level of problems, and goes to the design office to be re-designed, and improved in some lines. That is ok.
But is that to apply TQ or 6S to the process of design?,
Is the <<design process>> in itself quality controlled?
Or the process of design is a solution to the failure of the device to try to lower warranty reclaims?
sancat

 

[GregLocock]

&quot;But is that to apply TQ or 6S to the process of design?&quot;

No, I don't think it is

&quot;Is the <<design process>> in itself quality controlled?&quot;

Let's see.

The design process is measured objectively (both in the performance of prototypes and models, and in the rate of progress of each individual part through the design process). If the objectives aren't met then changes are put in place. I think that is quality control of a sort. It certainly isn't statistical quality control as I understand it.

I don't understand &quot;Or the process of design is a solution to the failure of the device to try to lower warranty reclaims?&quot; - can you have another go?

By the way I was NOT claiming that I've seen Six Sigma commonly being used at the design stage, I was wondering if other people had. Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[sancat]

Greg,
I did not understand myself too! (English is hard, you don’t use a specific word order, and it is non intelligible)
I was trying to say that design was being used to improve a device following the feedback from the field. Right?

I agree that it would be extremely difficult to measure whether design was produced using a TQ scheme.

sancat