They need to dig up a good coating specialist.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
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Eiffel Tower in Need of Repair 9
- Thread starter dik
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- #21
I understand that that was to happen with the Fuller dome at the Montreal expo in '67, and that they ran into deflection issues during the erection... and they had to weld the connections... rather than dismantle it, it was left.
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
The puddled iron process can produce wrought iron. Puddling can also produce steel. The process is no longer in commercial use.
Wrought iron - what is reportedly used in the Eiffel tower is very low carbon content (less than 0.08%), semi-fused mass of iron with fibrous slag inclusions (up to 2% by weight). In other words it is a composite material. It has better inherent corrosion resistance that uncoated steel.
Wrought iron is not generally considered a weldable steel (by arc welding process), but is very easy to drill, so it is ideal for riveted construction.
Wrought iron is no longer produced on a commercial scale,
My guess is that the lack of good surface prep has compromised the applied coating systems.
Wrought iron - what is reportedly used in the Eiffel tower is very low carbon content (less than 0.08%), semi-fused mass of iron with fibrous slag inclusions (up to 2% by weight). In other words it is a composite material. It has better inherent corrosion resistance that uncoated steel.
Wrought iron is not generally considered a weldable steel (by arc welding process), but is very easy to drill, so it is ideal for riveted construction.
Wrought iron is no longer produced on a commercial scale,
My guess is that the lack of good surface prep has compromised the applied coating systems.
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- #23
I would concur with that... big time.
I understand that there's a fairly high demand for 'real' wrought iron. Not sure, but have heard that...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
My understanding is that wrought iron is still in demand for artistic uses or in restorations. Now while wrought iron might be more resistant to long-term corrosion, it does rust and almost immediately, if the conditions are right, just that once you get that layer of rust, it pretty much stops.
Six years ago I did a full restoration of a Singer 66-4 sewing machine which was manufactured in 1927 (for a more comprehensive review of the restoration effort, please visit Singer Sewing Machine Restoration).
That being said, the lower framework of the sewing machine base was made of wrought iron, as seen in this photo (taken before I started the restoration):
May 2016 (Sony a6000)
And here were all of the pieces before I took them to the sandblasting shop to get all the old paint removed:
May 2016 (Sony a6000)
When I went to pick-up the sandblasted parts, I was told that I should get at least one coat of paint on them within 24 hours, otherwise they would start to rust. I put my first coat of primer on them before I went to bed that night as I was taking no chances.
BTW, this is what the fully restored sewing machine looked like when I was finished (as I said, if you want a more detailed review of the entire restoration project, click on the link I posted above):
July 2016 (Sony a6000)
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
Six years ago I did a full restoration of a Singer 66-4 sewing machine which was manufactured in 1927 (for a more comprehensive review of the restoration effort, please visit Singer Sewing Machine Restoration).
That being said, the lower framework of the sewing machine base was made of wrought iron, as seen in this photo (taken before I started the restoration):
May 2016 (Sony a6000)
And here were all of the pieces before I took them to the sandblasting shop to get all the old paint removed:
May 2016 (Sony a6000)
When I went to pick-up the sandblasted parts, I was told that I should get at least one coat of paint on them within 24 hours, otherwise they would start to rust. I put my first coat of primer on them before I went to bed that night as I was taking no chances.
BTW, this is what the fully restored sewing machine looked like when I was finished (as I said, if you want a more detailed review of the entire restoration project, click on the link I posted above):
July 2016 (Sony a6000)
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
Yes, it behaves a bit like the type of modern steel which forms a skin of oxide which in turn protects the core. Weathering steel, Corten and the like.
Also aluminum, in which the oxide on the outside protects the inside. Different chemical processes, I think, but similar result.
I doubt the Eiffel tower will ever have all the old coatings removed. Best to just continue to remove the loose stuff, and recoat with surface tolerant coatings.
Also aluminum, in which the oxide on the outside protects the inside. Different chemical processes, I think, but similar result.
I doubt the Eiffel tower will ever have all the old coatings removed. Best to just continue to remove the loose stuff, and recoat with surface tolerant coatings.
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- #26
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- #27
JohnRBaker
Mechanical
They might have been sand cast, but whatever the case, they were Iron and NOT steel. After the sandblasting, the material was very dark, almost black. This is one of the pieces, after sandblasting, but before I primed it:
May 2016 (Sony a6000)
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
May 2016 (Sony a6000)
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
- Thread starter
- #30
I have no idea of the constituent of the existing coatings... determine what they are and then decide how best to remove them... solvent and/or blasting with dryice/walnuts, or whatever. For safety and environmental issues, it may be necessary to 'encapsulate' the tower for a few months. I'm pretty sure something can be worked out. There could be 1/4" of lead based paint on it... dunno, but have to find out first, and there could be many types of paint... first it is necessary to find out what is there. The old line comes to mind, "People that say something is impossible, shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it."
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
-
1
- #31
Oh, gosh!
Another opportunity for a "post modern" viewpoint:
A competition to replace the tower. It is over 100 years old, a clear signal based on news reports that it has exceeded its life.
The rules:
It must be concrete, with perhaps some highly stressed steel stuff inside. That will never rust.
It must be asymmetrical, because symmetry is colonial. Or maybe imperial.
It MUST have affordable housing and no place to park the cars of the people who live in the affordable housing. What the HELL are we letting THOSE people have cars for, anyway?
The submissions must post-date the collapse of the Millennium Towers, because...of the symbolism...which is post capitalistic..I think.
I'll have another martini!
Thanks,
spsalso
Another opportunity for a "post modern" viewpoint:
A competition to replace the tower. It is over 100 years old, a clear signal based on news reports that it has exceeded its life.
The rules:
It must be concrete, with perhaps some highly stressed steel stuff inside. That will never rust.
It must be asymmetrical, because symmetry is colonial. Or maybe imperial.
It MUST have affordable housing and no place to park the cars of the people who live in the affordable housing. What the HELL are we letting THOSE people have cars for, anyway?
The submissions must post-date the collapse of the Millennium Towers, because...of the symbolism...which is post capitalistic..I think.
I'll have another martini!
Thanks,
spsalso
- Thread starter
- #32
![[ponder]](/data/assets/smilies/ponder.gif "[ponder] [ponder]")
Well, I must admit my flippant dial was turned up to 11.
But if we were to assume the Tower had to be replaced, what would it be?
Exposed-structure steel/iron is hugely out of fashion. It's likely because concrete is cheaper to use, rather than artistic whim. Which would reinforce the use of concrete for the replacement: "Not only is it built "the current way", but it's cheaper."
Asymmetry in building shape has become a way for buildings to be "different" and more notable than the old symmetric skyscrapers.
And affordable housing? It's what you do to get government approval for your project, and to perhaps deflect protesters and activists.
This all assumes that the old one wouldn't be replicated, of course.
spsalso
But if we were to assume the Tower had to be replaced, what would it be?
Exposed-structure steel/iron is hugely out of fashion. It's likely because concrete is cheaper to use, rather than artistic whim. Which would reinforce the use of concrete for the replacement: "Not only is it built "the current way", but it's cheaper."
Asymmetry in building shape has become a way for buildings to be "different" and more notable than the old symmetric skyscrapers.
And affordable housing? It's what you do to get government approval for your project, and to perhaps deflect protesters and activists.
This all assumes that the old one wouldn't be replicated, of course.
spsalso
Plan to visit ET in September, so hopefully, it will last at least until then
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
- Thread starter
- #35
Once a large portion of buildings are asymmetric, that won't be novel. What will architects dream up next for us engineers to design? Floating Buildings?
Exposed rivited construction is no harder to repaint than anything else until it gets corrosion inside of rivited joints which then must be disassembled to repair. That gets really expensive. I once worked on a gantry crane with that problem, we eventually cut it up for scrap.
Surface prep for a structure like the Eiffel tower usually involves abrasive blasting. Controlling the dust even in the unlikely event there is no led paint requires tenting the structure.
I also have one of those singer sowing machines, probably the same model as Mr Baker. My bet is the frame is cast iron, rather good quality. There may be a high demand for artistic wrought iron (touched by a blacksmith), but there is no commercial source for actual wrought iron, and no active ASTM numbers for the material.
This company still sells wrought iron (recovered from scrap) in small lots.
Exposed rivited construction is no harder to repaint than anything else until it gets corrosion inside of rivited joints which then must be disassembled to repair. That gets really expensive. I once worked on a gantry crane with that problem, we eventually cut it up for scrap.
Surface prep for a structure like the Eiffel tower usually involves abrasive blasting. Controlling the dust even in the unlikely event there is no led paint requires tenting the structure.
I also have one of those singer sowing machines, probably the same model as Mr Baker. My bet is the frame is cast iron, rather good quality. There may be a high demand for artistic wrought iron (touched by a blacksmith), but there is no commercial source for actual wrought iron, and no active ASTM numbers for the material.
This company still sells wrought iron (recovered from scrap) in small lots.
LittleInch
Petroleum
Well the Forth Bridge in scotland was supposed to have had a major paint job a few years ao, but took a long time and cost a small fortune. Given the complexity of the ET superstructure I would imagine it would be the same and you would need to encase it to stop all the old lead paint from polluting everywhere, presumably whilst they try to maintain tourist access... Won't make such a nice photo though when it's covers in scaffolding and plastic.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
Many many years ago I did jobs for the rail ridge. Which is more similar to the tower.
The road bridge was a completely different set of on going nightmares
The road bridge was a completely different set of on going nightmares
A very prolific bridge builder
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
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