Engine designs that have problems 22

[enginesrus]

Since the one thread I started, is headed way off topic, reason for this.
Engine designs that have problems or have had them.
I'll start with the 3 valve Triton.
This guy explains. Has data from others that deal with the same problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcN_WcGr4BU

 

[TugboatEng]

L-head as I know it is the old flat head or side valve engine.

 

[dik]

Thanks, my memory of it is very 'fuzzy'...too many non-prescription...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

L engine also refers to inline. People really fawn over the Ford 300 and Cummins inline-6. They attribute their longevity to extra main bearings per cylinder.

 

[enginesrus]

L head is flat head, F head valve in head. Even single cylinder engines carry that designation.
I don't know of too many bad designed L head engines, continental built them into the 70's as far as I know, they run just great, even when at the point of needing a major overhaul.
It is an I (eye) designation, short for INLINE, that specifies the inline engines, not an L.


Question of the day: The famous Chevrolet small block, what was a common problem at around the 100,000 mile point?

 

[TugboatEng]

The Europeans use L to describe an inline engine. Cylinder #1 is also on the power take off or flywheel end of the engine. As the other poster mentioned cab driver maybe English wasn't a first language.

Overhead valve came to prominence in order to increase the power output of engines. If one were to operate an overhead valve engine at flathead power levels the OHV engine may last longer still. Imagine your 302 Ford rated at 80 horsepower.

 

[enginesrus]

Yeah in the us even most older piston aircraft engines of the airliner sort, cylinder 1 is at the rear or anti power take off end, similar to most other engines here.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

the 2.7 TDV6 Land Rover Engine seems to spend more time in the garage than on the road.

Thankfully after years of fixing landrovers I have never felt the urge to get one.

 

[SnTMan]

Alistair_Heaton, you've doubtless heard the saying; "Land Rover. Making mechanics out of drivers since 1948". LOL

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The old ones were exceptionally easy to fix. I am talking series 2 and 3 land rovers.

Lucas was known crap but the heavy mechanics was easy. The current models are nuts.

 

[SnTMan]

No first hand experience here. But a neighbor lady of a certain type, lives with her mother, drove a couple different model Range Rovers. Not unusual too see them depart on a roll-back. She finally gave up on them and got, uh, the Jag SUV, diesel...


The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[BrianPetersen]

The traditional American pushrod V8 engines - it wasn't just the Chevrolet small-block! - often had timing chain issues later in life. But, all of those engine designs have design origins in the 1950s and 1960s. and back then, the expected service life of an engine was much, much less than it is now.

Those engines lacked guides and tensioners for the chain. The sprockets had fixed center distances. The chain was allowed to flop around (relatively) loosely.

The GM LS engines have guides and tensioners. The modern Ford V8 engines use overhead camshafts, and guides and tensioners. The modern Chrysler Hemi has guides and tensioners.

The absence of guides and tensioners in the original American pushrod engine designs presumably gave durability that was in line for expectations in the era in which they were designed.

The newer ones are better.

 

[enginesrus]

I am familiar with all the old late 40's through 60's engines of all makes I worked on most all of them. And yes the timing chain was always a main failure point, especially if they used the nylon or what ever the material was for the cam gear.
The thing that lowered life in those 50's days was, the oils not so great, the road draft tube not so great. And no when the chains were new they had almost no flop. Guides are a bad thing.
As long as they weren't goofing around with phenolic or plastic for the cam gear, never saw a timing gear failure.

 

[enginesrus]

This is a question of why. Colorado 3.7 Atlas 5 Cylinder Engine, what was the reasoning for this engine? All the added balance shafting etc. why not just go with a nice inline 6 cylinder that doesn't need the added drive system and bearings etc. etc. ?

 

[BrianPetersen]

Timing chain guides are a GOOD thing in that they avoid the chain whipping around. The newer engines with chains that are properly guided and tensioned have less trouble with this than the old ones that didn't have it.

The Atlas series of engines had 4, 5, and 6 cylinder variants which shared many internal components. Pistons, valves, con-rods, and all related components were all the same. There's nothing wrong with modular design.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

this new car i am getting as a very strange timing belt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0FAMMvWpBQ

What do you think? You have to change it every 80k km.

 

[SwinnyGG]

The threads are meant to point out problems.
Why not just talk the technical and not the Personal about a person posting something here?

It isn't personal. I know very little about you personally.

What I do know is that you don't actually have a clue what you're talking about.

'Talking the technical' would involve data. You have none. You post the exact same 'they did it better in the 40s' thread about once a week it seems in various forums, and you never have any data. Ever. Your idea of proving something is bad is 'I saw one break once and it came into my garage and now I hate it'.

This is an engineering forum. Full of engineers. Our entire lives are dedicated to the dispassionate evaluation of data- if you had some we'd all likely be quite pleased to evaluate it.. but you never do. Your entire personality on this forum is based on proclaiming that all modern engineers are idiots and that you know better.

I don't know why all these other people wast a second of their time in these threads. To be completely honest, I don't know why I do either. Probably because your 'additions' bring the overall quality of this forum down, and that bothers me.

 

[BrianPetersen]

this new car i am getting as a very strange timing belt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0FAMMvWpBQ

What do you think? You have to change it every 80k km.

That engine uses a timing chain. Are you thinking about the serpentine belt? That's external, and easy to replace.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

No that chain has to be swapped out.

Just it doesn't look like any timing chain I have done before

Not saying there is anything wrong with it just haven't seen the like before.

 

[LionelHutz]

Smaller long timing chains for OHC don't seem to last better than the shorter heavier GM small block or LS chains despite the "flopping". And lots of LS did not have guides and I don't believe any had actual tensioners, just fixed or spring loaded guides. The only time they had issues was that plastic tooth cam gear used for a while 40 odd years ago. You'd be hard pressed to find many examples of later small block or LS chain failure on engines with less than 250k miles. Yet lots of plastic guide blocks on OHC stuff are worn out by then.

 

[TugboatEng]

That type of chain is called a "silent chain". That is the same of chain used in the first generation small block Chevy engines.