Engineering Fee Qustion again! 7

[JStructsteel]

Anyone able to provide a sanity check for a foundation for PEMB?

90000sf, 30x60 bays, 2 walls with docks. So retaining walls, footings, AB design, maybe slab design.

One complication is the end frame columns are on a 5' high wall/pedestal. opposite side wind columns go down to slab

Midwest location, Central OH.

I am around $8500, but in my mind that seems high, due to repetition.

thoughts?

 

[JStructsteel]

Aesur, PhamENG, thanks. Obviously I am trying to do my due diligence, hence my fee almost doubling what I thought it would be. At the end of the day, I also need to pay the bills to keep the lights on, so by me sticking to everyone's guns and trying to keep fees high, its just letting the guy that doesnt give a shit come in and take the project.

Perhaps this is part of my 'training', either getting hosed on a project because i bid it too low, or not getting a project because i bid it too high.

Its not easy! I inspected a building and recommended a wall be replaced. The owner said go ahead with the new wall design. I send drawings, and they say "I thought we were going to save the wall!" Do I eat that cost, to save the relationship?

I see McDonalds is paying close to 50K a year. Really after taxes there, it could be more lucrative and less stressful, haha.

 

[phamENG]

JStructsteel - I agree, it's a seemingly impossible balance sometimes. If you're in a particularly tight market with a lot of cut throat competition, it's even harder.

I've been going for the boiled frog approach. I've been able to identify a few really good clients. Those are the ones I want to keep - they have nice projects, they pay on time, they have realistic cost expectations, and they appreciate my work as a value added to the project. So I've been gradually turning the up the heat on them. Bumping my prices up little by little to test the ceiling. I don't jump up so much that they balk and find somebody else; I bring it up slowly so, when it gets too high, they question it. I'll justify that one, and then on the next one scale it back a little.

Up above somewhere I think somebody said nobody is looking out for you and your fees - I had the remarkably rare and pleasant opportunity to find that to not be true with one of my clients. He used to beat me up on me fees....for being too low. His advice to me: Set your price to what you're comfortable with, do good work, and meet your deadlines. You'll have more work than you know what to do with. It was one of those too-obvious-to-be-true pieces of advice, and I knew that I already knew it when he said it, but I also didn't. It's completely changed my business for the better.

 

[milkshakelake]

It's based on a lot of factors, but the "calculation" of now nice to be, and how much to charge, depends on:
1) How much competitors are charging and how they respond to changes (not easy info to procure, but the best way is to subtly ask the client)
2) How much respect and reputation you command with the client
3) Client's verbal and/or physical reactions and nuances when you discuss the price (this is an extremely tricky cat and mouse game; sometimes they will throw up false objections to get you to lower the price, but you have to see the bigger picture of how they're responding)

If you're well respected, you have more leeway to charge more, stick to your guns about the price, and to charge for change orders without damaging the relationship. It's a balancing act. I've lost clients for sticking to my guns too much, and also had situations where I could've gotten away with more in hindsight. I've found a fuzzy balance where I'll take care of a change in scope if it's 1-3 hours extra, but will charge for anything more than that.

To prevent low quality/low fee engineers from taking the project, you have to present yourself and your sole proprietorship very well. That's a big topic in itself, but generally means marketing, presentation, confidence, and talking the client through what you bring to the table and what pitfalls you will help the client prevent. But in some cases, the client absolutely doesn't care about the quality and will go for the lowest fee (usually homeowners or inexperienced clients). I personally don't take those clients because it's a two way relationship, but if you really need to keep the lights on, you can lower the fee to grab that kind of work.

I recommend you stick with engineering and not work at McDonald's. I know it's tongue in cheek, but the earnings potential is huge if you get the negotiation skills down. I suggest reading "Influence" by Robert Cialdini. I rarely comment about engineering on eng-tips these days; I accepted that I'm never going to be a great technical engineer, because I earn more money if I focus on business skills.