Engineering is Going Overseas - Goodbye Jobs 55

[havesealwilltravel]

A friend of mine sent me the following link:

http://www.ieeeusa.org/forum/POLICY/2003/061803.html

It is depressing but true. The current high unemployment among engineers is going to continue and not only that it will get worse.

One of the threads in this forum concerns itself with encouraging women to go into engineering. If you care about the person, be honest with them (and yourself). Engineering as a career for a large number of people is over. A bright young person would be smarter to pursue another profession.

I don't believe that a person is born an engineer and will only be happy if they become an engineer. Obviously, if current trends continue, a lot of engineers are going to have to seek happiness in another career if they want to earn a living.

Globalization is good only for individuals with substantial capital to invest overseas. For the rest of us who work for a living it has done nothing but lower wages and increase unemployment.

Please read the article !!!!!!!

 

[jmw]

"Take, Microsoft, for example....no invasion of a foreign country"
What sort of invasion are you thinking about? It doesn't have to be military onslaught such as in Iraq. Economics are just as potent a weapon as guns. In fact, part of the cold war strategy was designed to lock Russia into a military arms race because that was a race the west thought it could win or mantain the balance; the objective was partly to deprive the Russians of the opportunty to develop their natural resources. Now, with no cold war, Russia is begining to develop those resources and watch out the West. AFter the last world war rebuilding Germany and Japan meant all new equipment while in countries like the UK they struggled on with the old equipment. I have been in a Russian refinery in Siberia that is over 100sqkm. installing the latest process instrumentation that at a stroke puts them ahead of most western refineries.
Microsoft is an invasive economic force. Looked at their software prices lately? do you know what share of the market they have? Win98 is officially dead and support ended (rumour has it that since 40% of installed OS is win98 they may have had a rethink about support) but effectively it means you can't go and buy a second hand PC and find win98 (legally) you have to buy a new winXP operating system.(Do a search for win98SE and see what i mean.
Microsoft has become a favoured supplier. College courses in the Uk in any computer subject you like demonstrate the microsoft stranglehold. Cpourses advertised as Web page design and internet skills don't actually teach you these skills, they are Microsoft product training courses.
Microsoft is an example of a monopolistic organisation. Their share of the market is higher than would be allowed if two companies wanted to merge. But then, that's protecting US jobs. If there were a level playing field here, where would US jobs be? frankly, my next computer will be a MAC. The only way to break the virtual monopoly micosoft has is for more people to make a non-lazy decision.
Economic warfare includes government policies such as embargos and boycots. Economic war may not involve the big bangs and the smart bombs but it can be no less devastating for all that. Economic warfare has been with us about as long as conventional warfare. No guns doesn't mean no war and no pestilence. Try telling third world countries desperate for affordable medicines that economics are loaded against them.

 

[MechEng13]

profengmen,

According to my boss the customer specifically stated that Wal-mart told them, they would no longer accept go-karts with anything other than chinese engines on them.

On a side note...if you are in the market for a go-kart, I would recommend nothing but Manco Machines...the Dingo Line.

Was in the go-kart industry for 8 years and still haven't seen a better looking or safer design. And built in NE Indiana.


Alan M. Etzkorn
Product Engineer
Nixon Tool Co.

http://www.nixontool.com

 

[profengmen]

Microsoft started in a dorm room and has invaded the world.

Engineers study economics in college. Economists don't study engineering.

 

[buzzp]

Walmart has big relations with the powers of China, I am certain. Why else make that demand?
Wal-mart used to be a good store. Not that they have put everyone else out of business, the things that got them where they are (low prices, good quality, customer service) are going down hill since they do not have much competition any more. The same thing happens with many other industries, electrical especially.

 

[pablo02]

As I think I mentioned before, WalMart (if a country in itself) would be China's 7th largest trading partner... Too bad Walmart doesn't have China play by the same rules it requires some of its other suppliers: like build warehouses and keep a supply on hand at the suppliers' cost until requisitioned for distribution (and I wouldn't be surprised that payment isn't forthcoming until the item is sold... (guess who is then responsible for the property taxes for the warehoused items??? China?)

 

[sacem1]

Hi to everyone involved in this thread, and we are a lot of people by now.

I think the thread has gone to ways really far out from the start point, even got stats on the lawyers signing your Constitution, which by the way has lasted more than any other that I might recall so it must not have been that bad.

Child labor is wrong and that has also been clearly stated as enviromental laws, which to me are really necesary to keep "Spaceship Earth" alive sustaining life for our kids.

But the original point is where are we going as engineers, well I think we are going ahead and we will be needed for the advance of all man kind, the problem is not where is engineering going but where are Engineers going, and that is the big question, our work is going to be requiered the problem is that it is going to be done, most probably, by a qualified guy in a low wage paying country and here is my own theory of what is going to happen to the US, Canada, Australia and European Comunity countries:

In the last ten or so years Argentina had a wage boom, they earned wages out of line with South American countries, fueled by a LOT of credit received from IMF, international Banks and so on, in the mean time they found it more "sensible" to import goods and stoped producing them, they once had about 10 different companies building machine tool equipment (lathes, milling mach, drills, etc) in these years mainly taiwanese and chinese machines were imported in very low import tariffs and costs so ALL went out of bussiness, (Sounds familiar to US buyers?, just browse the machinery catalogues and see where are those equipments built) suddenly the economy collapsed, why? the loaners stoped loaning more money and in weeks a country who had fed the world in WW II had kids diying of starvation while at the same time having bumper crops of grain, and exporting cattle and milk.
Well to make it short: The whole world has been lending money to the US and its partners and has been fueling a standard of living which is not proportional to what they have been producing, how? You guys live in the only country in the world that every time it needs money it only has to print more paper and call it US DOLLARS, thats why a woman living on welfare in a US city slum has more electrical equipment (TV, VCR, Fridge, A/C, etc) than most trained engineers in the third world, and that my friends IS NOT FAIR GAME, the payment received by a person should be proportional to its contribution to the economy and eventually the economic laws are going to make that happen and probably thats what is starting to happen now.
Eventually third world engineers are going to receive more payment and US engineers will find a way of getting more productive even if it means getting rid of all the "overhead" taht they have to carry right now.
As for the ones in Argentina they are back with their feet on the ground and starting from the ground up to raise its country, again.
I do not live in the US, really I like your country, travelled really a lot and had not one bad experience in those trips and the potenciall that you see everywhere is incredible, you don't see it because you are used to see it so it seems naturall to you, but belive me what you need is a really good shake out like FDR did with the New Deal, you have fallen sleep and don't know it.
Cheers to all.
SACEM1

 

[arunmrao]

I admire the patience of members going through this long thread. As I have an old computer,it is very slow and it takes a long time to open. My request is that if we can start a fresh thread,it will be convenient. There have been a great number of contributors and views presented ,I request the opinion and consent of the members to start a fesh thread. Perhaps danym who started this thread originally can start the new one.

Thanks.
Arun Rao

 

[funnelguy]

My 24Kbps phone lines and I second that motion!

 

[arunmrao]

"Washington, Jan 24: In the first Federal law against outsourcing, the US Senate on Thursday night passed a law barring doling out sub-contracts to India and other countries by American companies to cut their costs."

This news item might pacify the anxiety of most of my friends in this forum. I do not know how this might help engineering companies . The advocates of free world economy have now resorted to protectionist measures. A dichotomy truly symbolic of US government. This is turning too political so I better stop before I am flagged.

(No harm meant to anyone individually.)

 

[jmw]

Aint that just like politicians? This is a no-brainer. The legislation merely reflects what is already happening and thus offends no-one but they can be seen to be doing something "effective". A recent review found that some of the first companies outsouring overseas, in particular, call centres, were finding that while cheaper and quicker per call, the accuracy of response was less good and hence, due to the protracted nature of handling each complaint/enquiry, it was costoing more.
In other words, economic strikes again. Left alone two things might happen, overseas call centres might get better and legislation would be effective, or economics will see a reduction no matter what the politicians do.
Of course, one swallow doesn't make a spring.
Now how about the politicians either stay out of it and let history run its course or try and do something useful.

 

[funnelguy]

arunmrao,
I would be upset, too, if I lived in India.

I doubt that there was ever a time in the history of the US when we were not protectionist to some extent. Certainly not in the last 50 years. Can anyone point me to an example of a nation with absolutely no trade barriers? Where a truly level playing field exists with zero governmental intervention? Every government should seek to improve the economic condition of its people. Including your government. I think I may have made that statement about a dozen times on these forums.

I certainly will not flag your post. I prefer open discussions so all interested parties can make up their own mind based on a wide variety of viewpoints.

I have not read the news story. Could someone provide some links or more details?

 

[havesealwilltravel]

I have enjoyed the interesting discussion presented in this thread. However, I agree with arunmran and others that it is getting too long.

I have started a new thread "Engineering is Going Overseas II". Let's continue the discussion there.