Engineering Outsourcing/Workshare Concerns? 4

[Jafka]

Virtually all of the major engineering firms are now sending at least some piping design and CAD work overseas (namely, India) and many are beginning to do the same for the various engineering disciplines.

I would be curious to hear everyone's experiences, worries and predictions about a growing trend of American engineering firms sending engineering work abroad.

Jafka

 

[rb1957]

as their's rises,

or as our's falls ?

 

[cranky108]

Sort of sounds like the problems we havd had in just out sourcing to a consultant (in the USA).

Also some of the people who have been outsourcing have been loosing business because of there shotty workmanship.

Just goes to show, you have to do your homework when you outsource.

 

[lacajun]

as their's rises,

or as our's falls ?

Excellent point and one I emailed Dr. Walter Williams about. He never answered or wrote about that. It must've been a dumb question, in his estimation.

 

[GregLocock]

Call me PollyAnna, but their's rises. Maybe not in the nice smooth way that some would like, but to take an obvious example, virtually everybody has access to a mobile phone now, around the world. 20 years ago that was unobtainable technology for 95% of the world's population.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[moltenmetal]

As "theirs" rises, so does their standard of living, which is great.

As "theirs" rises, so SHOULD their currency, and with their currency, their labour cost. The latter is not so true in China, but nobody has the stomach for tarrifs any more.

 

[lacajun]

I have no issues with other nations raising their standard of living. I have issues with ours, in the US, declining. I read an article recently about the loss of real income in the US. Can't remember where I read it or the details.

I've read reports about inner city problems escalating with the decline of manufacturing jobs. It stands to reason that people are going to get in trouble more often and probably more egregiously if they have nothing productive to funnel that energy into. At least, that's the way I think. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop kinda' thing.

 

[GregLocock]

In what sense is the standard of living declining? people are eating more, living longer, have more powerful iPods, working less, burning more fossil fuel and live in larger houses than ever before?

Has the standard of living really dropped compared with say twenty years ago, or is it just not improving in ways that YOU (or I) approve of? or is it just that the rate of improvement has dropped? or the rate of rate of improvement has gone negative?

Or do you just mean $?



Cheers

Greg Locock


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[KENAT]

Greg, lacajun may be referencing various studies that show the 'real wealth' of most Americans has been dropping for the last couple of decades or so.

However, this gets a bit too close to 'beer tax analogy' territory for me so I'll pass on saying any more.

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[csd72]

is it real income if it is mostly recorded electronically? Or is this just cyber income and the real income being cash in hand.

 

[moltenmetal]

Wealth disparity between rich and poor COUNTRIES has been improving. However, wealth disparity between rich and poor within Western countries affected by the loss of manufacturing jobs has been growing, and there's evidence that wealth disparity is a better indicator of societal disease and unrest than is average wealth:

For a particular example:

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence/physical-health

If you want to see the same trend on multiple "social health" indicators:

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence

Again, I have no problem with development or international trade, even though it does come with a significant downside for rich societies such as the one I have the priviledge to live in. I do have a problem with some people not playing by the same economic rules as everyone else (i.e. China monkeying around with its currency). I also have a problem with the way the benefits and costs of these changes are shared within my own society.

 

[ewh]

From personal observations, I have seen real income stagnate or decline. New cars, vacations, quality dental care, even meals out are nowhere near the accessablity now that they were ten years ago. I don't need statistics to recognize that my wallet is getting thinner every year.
Yes, my standard of life has definitely declined.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[controlsdude]

Ask Boeing how this outsourcing has worked with the dreamliner 777. It did not work.

 

[lacajun]

GregLocock, I cannot remember the details of the articles. I read many of them several years ago. If memory serves, it is take home pay for most Americans and we have less disposable income and real purchasing power than our parents. When I get time, I'll try to find the article(s).

I don't judge anyone's standard of living but my own. It's the only one I have a little control over by deciding what, how, when, and if to spend money. If someone can afford their own personal jet to fly around the globe, more power to them. If they can afford a Hummer, Caddy, etc., more power to them. It isn't for me to think anything about or try to regulate their behavior. I like capitalism and free markets. We've got thousands of laws in the Federal Register and I dare say we need far fewer and many are probably asinine.

We grew up in poverty but I have cousins who did not, by a large margin. Money is not the source of happiness but it can make life easier, if handled properly. Some of my cousins could handle their inheritance and some couldn't. It's been an interesting lesson to observe through my own family.

 

[Fugeguy]

Recently the customers I work with (US based engineers) have seen their jobs become fixing poorly done India designs.

That said they will get better and that should give us all something to think about.

 

[berkshire]

in my opinion China and India are where Japan was in the 1960's
They are already starting to produce some high quality products instead of just copying.
Sending work and training their engineers, simply accelerates the time when both countries will do major engineering without any external input.
They will be going overseas and taking on major projects on their own without any input from the host country. In the same manner that engineers from the UK the USA Russia and Germany did in the last century.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[GregLocock]

I am reminded of the psychological/economics experiment in which a person is offered $200 to do some work, if somebody else gets $500 for the same work, or $100 if the other person is only paid $75.

A majority of people choose the second scenario.

Keeping your boot on someone else's neck is apparently a common need, even if it hurts you.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[davefitz]

If the US unemployment rate in the selected field is low enough, then one can rationalize free transit of labor task to overseas.

One means of dampening the transfer of labor tasks overseas is to institute a VAT value added tax , on all goods and services. It also improves the collection of revenue to the national treasury, but the on the date of its initiaion one would see a one-time spike in inflation ,and of course a reversal of political fortunes.

 

[KENAT]

Has VAT significantly reduced the outsourcing from countries like the UK that have high VAT rates?

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[ajack1]

From the UK if you export services outside the EU that is VAT exempt in most cases, the same applies to countries within the EU that charge VAT.

It is however a minefield of forms and documentation and of course you are at the mercy of fluctuations in currency exchange rates.

So no high VAT does not hurt businesses who export.

 

[csd72]

dave,

That sounds like a tarrif rather than a VAT. A VAT is simply a sales tax that also applies to services.