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Flint Municipal water 89

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moon161

moon161

Mechanical
Dec 15, 2007
1,181
So, Flint has been MI lead poisoned and exposed to legionella bacteria because the water supply was switched from Detroit municipal to the Flint River. Since the polluted river is corrosive and iron rich, lead was leached from pipes and solder into the water of thousands of homes, and legionella bateria (legionaire's diseased) apparently thrived on the dissolved iron.

It was done to save money, it stayed that way because people who knew of the crisis sat on the information and obstructed inquiry.



There HAS to be a (ir)responsible engineer in that chain. What are their duties, did they fail to perform? Would whistleblower action have been appropriate?
 
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Flint like many other cities, likely does not make any money from there water system, and likely needs the money to fix the leaks it has. But the public perception is that they have a big pot of money they can just spread around. The reality is they need to tightly manage this utility, and few political players can do that, and the people that can rarely get any credit for there hard work.

Another thing I see, at least in my city, is the street department is so in need for money that they keep increasing the street cut fees from the water utility, which does not help the pipe replacement projects.

 
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Another thing I see, at least in my city, is the street department is so in need for money that they keep increasing the street cut fees from the water utility, which does not help the pipe replacement projects.

That is a big part of the problem- Flint diverts ~17% of water revenue to other departments. The national average is about 10% lower, per the MI state treasury's figures.
 
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It would be unusual for a state agency like the MDEQ to approve a project (like the KWA project) with such leakage. In Illinois, the IEPA will not approve a withdrawal from Lake Michigan unless the unaccounted water was less than 8%.

The quoted leakage rate is for infrastructure within the City of Flint, not for the KWA project. Seriously... they're separate issues. You can't push one set of problems on the other.

How about an example so that you may understand. The state MDEQ equivalent will review the leakage (unaccounted water) for a City and will not approve a wasteful water withdrawal from a water resource unless the City improves the infrastructure. You are correct that this has nothing to do with the KWA except that the KWA project would not have been permitted because there is too much water waste.

 
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It would be unusual for a state agency like the MDEQ to approve a project (like the KWA project) with such leakage. In Illinois, the IEPA will not approve a withdrawal from Lake Michigan unless the unaccounted water was less than 8%.

Uh.. again, the quoted leakage rate is NOT for the KWA. Period. Flint's leakage rate was/is not a factor in the KWA's approval to move forward.

The building or not building of the KWA pipeline was not contingent on Flint signing on as a customer. They adjusted the size of the pipeline to accommodate the additional demand from COF, but the pipeline would have been constructed either way. So, again- the efficiency of Flint's infrastructure is immaterial to the KWA's existence.

The KWA is pumping from Lake Huron. DWSD pumps its water from... you guessed it... Lake Huron. Flint isn't going to be wasting any more Lake Huron water, if the KWA switch is completed, than it was before. I doubt this fact was lost on the MDEQ.
 
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who could have possibly thought there would be subject besides AGW that would generate over 200 posts...[bugeyed]

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529
 
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If AGW had not caused this problem, we would not be discussing it.

What is an acceptable leak rate for treated water? For waste water? I guess fixing leaks is not low hanging fruit, and why it was not addressed first.
Most political types would not work on such a non-gloryful projects like fixing leaks, or bridges, or pot-holes, or homelessness, or jobs, etc.
 
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OK, I'll bite Cranky108, how did anthropogenic global warming (AGW) lead to the Flint water contamination issue?

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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Likely not at all, but just wait and someone will make a link and report it as news, like they did with Sandy.

My point is the bias in the reporting of Flint, and AGW is so astounding that you can't believe even half of what's being published, printed, or reported.

Many of the posts seemed almost like indictments of one political party or another, and not the people who may have been the cause.

Corruption in politics, or science, or anything involving money is not limited political parties, race, gender, or many other factors. It is people making bad choices in a greedy grab for money, power, and fame.

...

Maybe there is a greedy grab in the reporting of corruption in an effort for money, power and fame?
 
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Just read the book "The Blue Death". It is about the epidemiology of water borne diseases, but did talk about our piping system. He estimated the leak rate at 33% nationwide. It was at 40% in pre-Katrina New Orleans.

 
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"If something does not make sense, there is money behind it"
 
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That explains our government, in general.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
faq731-376 forum1529
 
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Just read the book "The Blue Death". It is about the epidemiology of water borne diseases, but did talk about our piping system. He estimated the leak rate at 33% nationwide. It was at 40% in pre-Katrina New Orleans. The figure of 33% is on the high side.

"In a 2001 survey of 28 regulatory agencies representing 23 states and 3 regional authorities, all reported the use of some type of standard or benchmark for water losses. Pme fact that emerged was that there is a lack of clear consensus on reporting standards. Anther finding was that "unaccounted-for" water loss standards ranged from 7.5 to 20%. The water loss percentages mostly referred to production water losses (Beecher, 2002)."



Corruption in politics, or science, or anything involving money is not limited political parties, race, gender, or many other factors. It is people making bad choices in a greedy grab for money, power, and fame.

Cranky, you are giving these folks in Michigan too much credit. It is not corruption, it is just plain ignorance. See the news clip of the former Flint Mayor who supposedly was a Rhodes scholar, admitting to taking campaign donations from the constructors of the KWA pipeline.

 
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IRstuff

who could have possibly thought there would be subject besides AGW that would generate over 200 posts...bugeyed

Your acronym is incorrect. One should be using the acronym AWG instead of AGW.
 
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The posts that generate more comments than AGW are the subjects that are contrary to the AWG thinking. For example, when it comes to climate change denial, not all human beings are created equal. Recent studies have shown that AWG's are less likely to believe in climate change than any other group.
 
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I suspect the 4th from the bottom, which is probably accurate as well as telling.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
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Much depends on whether or not U of M's lead line map was known or available to the people planning testing locations.
 
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