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I cannot bring up alternatives to CO2 without being mobbed.

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Skogsgurra

Skogsgurra

Electrical
Mar 31, 2003
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PC has now taken over all discussions on climate and reasons for climate changes.

I try to keep an open mind, but Sweden has always been a consensus society and consensus is now total. Any other possible mechanism than CO2 is now banned and not allowed to be brought up in discussions.

What do you think about such a society?

Gunnar Englund
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Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
 
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Cap & Trade isn't my favorite either Zdas.

See, occasionally we agree to some extent.

If nothing else it all seemed a bit to gimmicky and like a good way for the wall street folks to grab even more of the average Joe's mullah.

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Saying that "cap and trade" is "gimmicky" is like saying that "Oil for Food" had a "couple of glitches". I've seen some of the data for the cap and trade crap that is underway in other places and people are making BILLIONS off of "little" skimming schemes. The plans for the U.S. version in Chicago will make all the graft in the history of the world look like small potatoes. There is no way to transfer that much wealth without a lot of it sticking to a lot of fingers.

This thing stinks a lot.

David
 
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My take is that the whole debate is a socialist agenda to gain control. Check out Agenda 21 for Dummies and you will see what you are in for in the USA.

Check out his presentation on the serious dilemma facing energy production and distribution in the USA. You will go back 100 years where electricity was used for light bulbs. you will need global warming to keep warm.

We have our own problems here in Oz.

The World Wildlife Foundation was set up primarily to reduce the Earth's population. They are trying to destroy the food bowl of Asia in the Murray Darling Basin. Stupid things like taxing the water collected in dams from rain run off. Now the have banned live exports of beef to Indonesia. That will reek havoc in our beef industry. The intent is to reduce the population here to 6 million.

"Sharing knowledge is the way to immortality"
His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

 
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IR

You sound a lot like my neighbours.

First: Yes it matters. If we don't cause it - then why should we do things like 'Earth Hour' and why should we panic at all?

Second: I don't think there is much doubt as to what happened to Titanic. It did sink. But what do we really know about the fate of the Earth?


Gunnar Englund
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Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
 
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IRstuff said:
According to some recent modelling, it would only take about 100 Hiroshima-sized bombs to send us into nuclear winter.
Hiroshima Little Boy - Aug 1945 - 15kt
Tsar Bomba test - Oct 1961 - 50Mt (or 50,000kt)

Tsar Bomba (ONE Soviet air drop test) was 3300 Hiroshimas.

Also worth noting is the vast number of tests that have been conducted. Thousands. There's a movie available on-line. Mostly underground, but many atmospheric tests in the 1950s and 1960s. Enough to indicate that the modeling is probably incorrect.

Also, any mid-size forest fire will outsmoke a mid-size nuclear explosion. There are probably almost 100 such fires burning in western Canada today.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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I agree with you Gunner. Provide people with a convenient explanation and they are easily led to believe the simple conclusion. In reality, no-one can actually predict what will happen to this planet if we continue doing as we are presently are doing. However, I'll guarantee that the governments in North America won't be able to properly do anything about CO2 production. It sounds like you have a similar view of the folks in charge where you reside on the planet.

This thread is turning into a climate change thread but there's really not much point in another thread discussing climate change (aka global warming renamed). You can do searches for climate change and find all kins of threads with almost any arguement possible already presented.
 
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Is it because you are VE1BLL (Military) or would it be the same if you were VE1BLL (Civilian)?

Gunnar Englund
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Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
 
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To get back to Gunnar's original issue - I think that people should be free to express opinions contrary to the majority without being shunned or otherwise abused. I'm not sure Sweden is any worse than anywhere else, but I don't know. We don't seem to have much problem discussing that particular issue in the US. Although the level of discourse leaves a lot to be desired. Everyone has an opinion on everything, whether they have any idea of what they are talking about or not. That can be seen any day on Oprah or cable news.

I have the same problem when discussing nuclear power with some of my non-engineering friends. When I express my opinion that we should be building nuclear power plants as fast as we can build them, they look at me like I just killed their dog.

David Castor
 
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I would say that Sweden is worse than most other countries. It probably has something to do with our welfare system. And a long, long almost unbroken period with one party at the rudder. It seems to have fostered generations of individuals that 'sit in the boat'. We also have but a few daily newspapers. The dominant one is where all debate used to be and it is only recently that the other (right) paper has taken over part of that function. If that helps, I cannot say.

All Swedes are not like this. But 'the silent mass' and among them are many of my neighbours and relatives.

I also once questioned the drink-and-drive tabou (using Borkenstein findings) and that was definitely not the right thing to do. I guess I never grow up.

Gunnar Englund
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Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
 
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Skogs, you should know playing Devils Advocate is rarely popular with the 'true believers' on any topic.

I mean, just look at the flak I sometimes generate.

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Just don't try dancing at the Jefferson Memorial.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]
 
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Well, yes Gunnar, but you must admit you widened your audience with drinking and driving. CO2 haters got on your case for the wasteful expenditure of fuel, and promoting the growth (for profit no less!) of CO2-producing organisms (yeast), and the anti-alcohol safety-first crowd piled on as well. Next, you should advocate drinking, whilst driving a large boom crane around (pointlessly), and all without wearing a hard hat or protective eyewear. Maybe sans seatbelt too. Near high voltage power lines. Oh, and shooting at beer cans.

Gee, that sounds like fun. Wonder what the rental rate on a boom crane is, maybe I'll get one for the 4th of July party...
 
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