I guess I'm getting old.

[HgTX]

This is kind of a rehash of the harrumphing in Thread731-110284 (which I happened to surf to recently), but I just gotta.

I was just at a conference. There were a number of college students in attendance.

The boys all wore what I'd expect a student to wear to a conference--variations on the theme of polo or oxford shirt, and khakis. More formal than they'd wear just hanging out or going to a party.

The girls, on the other hand...

Okay, it's not like they were wearing lowriser jeans with their thongs sticking out. But they wore outfits that, although fairly nice, looked a lot more like they were going to parties than to a meeting. And they wore that "I'm finally too old for Daddy to tell me not to do this" quantity of mascara that has been popular with girls and that adult women have always grown out of since about 1968.

And they wore flip-flops. Sure, new fancy flip-flops with little gold spangles, but flip-flops dammit.

And yes, I know, the face of engineering is changing and new demographics will bring in new looks, but this didn't strike me so much as cutting-edge as simply juvenile and clueless.

There were also girls there who knew how to dress--they looked plenty feminine, plenty modern, but professional. So it's not simply that Times Have Changed. (And besides, cutting-edge in engineering just means wearing what was cutting-edge a few years ago in less conservative fields but is now pretty standard. Flip-flops are NOT "the new flats", and a quick googling backs me up on this.)

There were no boys who wore nice yet inappropriate clothes (like, Idunno, silk knit T-shirt with more jewelry than one ought to wear to the office).

I don't really think it's just a matter of What Young People Are Wearing These Days. I recently attended a presentation given by a bunch of business school freshmen (age 19, mostly girls), and they were all VERY professional-looking. I guess they teach them that in B-school.

So why should it be the girls who didn't bother figuring out what they should wear to this conference? Is it lack of role models hanging around their civil engineering departments? Or is it the greater variability in women's wear that leads to more likelihood of picking the wrong thing?

Or is it just my deep-seated prejudice against anyone who reminds me of high school?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

It's sounds like some of you guys are starting to feel a bit old!

Like Ashereng said, what is considered appropriate attire now-a-days would have shocked many engineers decades ago when a suit was a must. Things change. Maybe in a few decades the trend will be to dress in togas, or overalls, or unitards. What's the big deal? The way your generation dressed was fine, but that doesn't necessarily make it the right way.

"Fashion is a thing so hideous that it needs to be changed every six months" - Oscar Wilde

 

[HgTX]

If a guy showed up to the conference in clean new flipflops and a nice, new, pressed hawaiian shirt, I think there would be more agreement here.

Business fashions have indeed evolved, but they evolve slowly, with the occasional "quantum leap". (Women's pantsuits were one such necessary leap.) I guess maybe I'm thinking that even if fashions change, there is even a protocol to govern that.

What's the difference between being at the front edge of a trend, and just being ignorant about protocol (either for current dress code or how to go about varying from it)?

I have a sense of a very big difference, but I don't know that I could really explain that difference. I have some respect for the former, and none for the latter.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[Ashereng]

HgTX,

I am guessing here, but I think you remember when jeans were only worn by the poor, as work cloths, or rebels (James Dean anyone).

Wearing jeans to a business meeting today is common. I recently went to see my investment advisor, on a Wednesday, lunch, and he was in jeans, logoed golf shirt, and casual shoes. And, he was not unique.

I guess we can agree to disagree.

If flip flops offends your sensiblity so much, I guess you should say something to the offender, your boss, HR, whatever...

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Twoballcane]

Somthing related:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Careers/story?id=2034037

"Flip-flops are out. Slingbacks, espadrilles and loafers are preferable to open-toed strappy numbers."

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[Ashereng]

HgTX,

Check this out:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13459962/

Pets at work. Is that professional or what?

So, you come into a meeting, and trip over the snoring dog of the flip flop wearing 20/30 something client.

What da ya think of dat?


"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[KENAT]

At my new job on my first day I actually got told to take my tie off as it wasn't appropriate!

Before you think I'm ancient I only entered the workforce in 1999 and at my old place wore a suit everyday for the first year or two, and yes every time I left the office to go on the shop floor or where ever I put on my jacket.

Once the couple of suits I had started to wear out (think grease stains etc) I moved to the black pants and short sleeve button shirt uniform (I also kept a tie in my drawer in case I forgot about a meeting so I could slip it on) with a newer nicer suit for really important meetings.

On site was another matter, although even then jeans were frowned upon. I had what I called my trials hat, basically a rather old fashioned beanie which I always got teased for. That was until the person doing the teasing had been stood out side for a few hours in the wind/sleet etc. They soon shut up.

My new place, where I was told to remove the tie, has in effect no dress code, even tho' there was a slide on it in the HR indoctrination. Shorts and flip flops are a regular occurrence, sometimes I think the real dress code is to look as bad as you can.


I still feel odd wearing jeans, and although more casual in style just can't seem to give up my buttoned short sleave shirts.

 

[ivymike]

Pets at work. Is that professional or what?

My wife's boss allowed that - and we took full advantage of it when we had a new puppy (easier to supervise the pup during the workday that way).

 

[Ashereng]

Heh Heh.

And you all thought flip flops was a bit unprofessional.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[HgTX]

I think I'd rather see the puppy than the flipflops. But then I own my own flipflops, so I can see them whenever I want; I have to rely on others for puppy access.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[Ashereng]

So, you are saying:

dogs = professional
flip flops <> professional

Hmm. Interesting.

Seems much less like age, than self interest.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[KENAT]

We have pets at work, we call them interns.

Our favorite game is go fetch.

Sorry, poor attempt at humor.

Ken

 

[HgTX]

Where did you get dogs = professional? I just find puppies more entertaining than flipflops.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[graybeach]

I did not mention that my former boss' wife always brought her dogs with her when she visited the office. The little poodle was ok, but the bigger dog had a rude sniffing habit.

 

[HgTX]

Oh, man, I should have guessed there'd be a little poodle "accessory" involved! Or at least a chihuahua.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[SomptingGuy]

We used to have a company cat. I think it was a stray or runaway that adopted us. Kind of took some of the austerity out of the tunstiles and electric fences.

 

[HgTX]

I've seen many factory cats and the occasional store cat. I don't think I've seen any office cats.

(Does that mean cats are not "business formal" but perhaps borderline "business casual"?)

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[MadMango]

We have a person in accounting that raises seeing eye dogs for the blind. Part of the training is to introduce the dogs to large groups of people so they will behave in crowds of strangers. I notice that everyone smiles and are happy when they see the dogs, though they are encouraged not to pet or interact with it. The dogs do not run around playing fetch, marking territory, or barking.

I see nothing wrong with this, but would have a problem with someone bringing in their personal pets just because they feel sorry for not spending time at home with them. If you want a pet that doe not need a lot of attention, get a reptile or fish. Ball pythons are great cuddlers.

I also notice people that have their kids in the office when school is out because they could not find a babysitter. I think its cruel to force a child to sit in an already cramped cubicle for 8hrs and expect them not to want to stretch their legs or be curious as to what others are doing and why.

Clothing styles are dependant on the given job on a given day. I personally wear jeans and polo shirts most days, as I never know when I may be required to do something out on the shop floor. Others in the office that never venture into the manufacturing area wear slacks, button shirts and ties. Meetings with outside contacts (not vendors) change my dressing habits to black pleated pants and a button-up long sleeve shirt (still no tie).

What really burns me are the women in the office that wear skirts, sandals and a tank top, then complain that the A/C is too cold and have it turned down/off while the rest of us that are dressed appropriately broil. I've told my share to wear a shawl or jacket if they're cold, but use less appropriate adjectives and explicatives.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Ashereng]

Working/Service animals are always exempt from the rules barring animals - buses, trains, airplanes, ships, etc.

I don't think the piece I referred to here is in relation to service animals.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[jmw]

"pet creches" ?
Why not, lots of other daft things happen in todays work environment (e.g. employing dyslexic postman because it would be discriminatory not to - perhaps we should start a list).
Of course, some pets may eat others given some peoples fondness for "exotic" animals; any guesses on when will be the first occassion a pet owner sues company because one pet was dinner for another?
You can bet that anyone wearing unsuitable clothes/footware won't let that stand in the way of a law suit "because the company didn't make them (infringe their civil liberties) wear more appropriate appareil.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ivymike]

ha! Here's another great one to upset the rulebound. When my feet get uncomfortably sweaty at work, I'll take off my shoes for a while and go without to let my socks air dry (despite dress code to the contrary).

The sweatiness usually becomes a problem on hot days when I've been traveling back and forth from the shop floor or test facilities (some days include as many as 3mi of walking outside in office shoes in temps in excess of 90F, with periods of office work interspersed).