I guess I'm getting old.

[HgTX]

This is kind of a rehash of the harrumphing in Thread731-110284 (which I happened to surf to recently), but I just gotta.

I was just at a conference. There were a number of college students in attendance.

The boys all wore what I'd expect a student to wear to a conference--variations on the theme of polo or oxford shirt, and khakis. More formal than they'd wear just hanging out or going to a party.

The girls, on the other hand...

Okay, it's not like they were wearing lowriser jeans with their thongs sticking out. But they wore outfits that, although fairly nice, looked a lot more like they were going to parties than to a meeting. And they wore that "I'm finally too old for Daddy to tell me not to do this" quantity of mascara that has been popular with girls and that adult women have always grown out of since about 1968.

And they wore flip-flops. Sure, new fancy flip-flops with little gold spangles, but flip-flops dammit.

And yes, I know, the face of engineering is changing and new demographics will bring in new looks, but this didn't strike me so much as cutting-edge as simply juvenile and clueless.

There were also girls there who knew how to dress--they looked plenty feminine, plenty modern, but professional. So it's not simply that Times Have Changed. (And besides, cutting-edge in engineering just means wearing what was cutting-edge a few years ago in less conservative fields but is now pretty standard. Flip-flops are NOT "the new flats", and a quick googling backs me up on this.)

There were no boys who wore nice yet inappropriate clothes (like, Idunno, silk knit T-shirt with more jewelry than one ought to wear to the office).

I don't really think it's just a matter of What Young People Are Wearing These Days. I recently attended a presentation given by a bunch of business school freshmen (age 19, mostly girls), and they were all VERY professional-looking. I guess they teach them that in B-school.

So why should it be the girls who didn't bother figuring out what they should wear to this conference? Is it lack of role models hanging around their civil engineering departments? Or is it the greater variability in women's wear that leads to more likelihood of picking the wrong thing?

Or is it just my deep-seated prejudice against anyone who reminds me of high school?

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[EddyC]

My Girlfriend's brother went to an interview at a leading software company wearing jeans and a flannel shirt. He was in a room with the other potential candidates, who all happened to be wearing 3 piece suits. The interviewers sent all the suits home emptyhanded. They told my girlfriend's brother that "You look like the kind of person that we want to work here. You're hired." At age 30, he now makes more money that most engineers twice his age.

 

[Ashereng]

See, there is a good reason for wearing flip flops.

You can take your shoes and socks off, hang them up,go about in flip flops until they dry!

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[HgTX]

Eddy--how long ago was the GF's brother's interview? There was a time when software guys ruled the world, and the more unconventional you looked, the better. (I think it was Microsoft where the dress code was reputed to be "Bathe.")

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[MadMango]

A related articles on dress shorts.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]
Steven K. Roberts, Technomad
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[casseopeia]

Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. I still don't like to see sloppy, beachy, flip flops in the office (the fancier ones are OK), but I can't throw any stones today.

I spent 5 hours on a rooftop in San Jose in shorts, linen shirt and big hat (shorts and hats are against company policy, along with printed T-shirts, loud jewelry and perfume). It was 110 degrees F on that roof last time I checked. Went home and showered, put on my make-up and jewelry for tonights performance at the Farmers Market, grabbed my costume and came back to the office where I can work in relative coolness until I have to put on a skirt composed of 50 yards of fabric, hip scarf and coin bra and head out into the heat.

Neither my attire this morning nor my exaggerated makeup and loud bracelets meet company policy. But at least I'm not wearing flip flops. Sorry Ashereng. I know you're partial to them.

I kinda like those city shorts, but they're too fancy for what I do. I like the long REI hiking shorts with all the pockets. And the pockets have to zip closed so I don't lose my camera, calipers, measuring tape, and inspection mirror while climbing scaffolding.





"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[EddyC]

HgTx,

The interview was 7-8 years ago and you hit the nail on the head about the company in question.

-EC

 

[mizzoueng]

One of my group members in our engineering capstone class wore flip-flops, designer (ripped) jeans, and a AE t-shrit to our final presentation. It was to nearly half the faculty and student body, which included several CEOs and Sr. Engs from companys like Caterpillar, etc.

Needless to say, we got docked about half out points for this idiots attire, we were all in business suits, ties, and dress shoes. Everyone presenting was in that attire. Our presentation was nearly flawless, but I remember one of the notes: "Flip-flops are NOT MEANT FOR MEETINGS!!! C-"

 

[Ashereng]

casseopeia, Thanks?

Too bad you can't wear the shorts. They'd at least be cool and easy to care for, assuming cotton/blend.


So, flip flops are for going to the beach, not the office.

But shorts are okay? Is that where this trend is going?

I am all for that.

Why can women show their legs, and men can't. Don't give me that arguement about women shaving their legs. One of mine is shaved (neoprene sock under my brace) already - can't be that hard to shave the other.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[UcfSE]

Because nobody wants to look at men's legs.

 

[HgTX]

I think many of us have done the "I'm on my way somewhere else and just here for a little while" version of alternative wardrobing.

Around here, I wear T-shirts & jeans all the time. I am expected NOT to look like that if I go anywhere else, including other campuses within my own agency. But I'm under the impression that sandals (on me, not on the admins) would be pushing it. (I'm wearing a pair right now but they're my summer dress shoes and I'm on my way to a funeral; see paragraph #1 above.)

Regarding the "city shorts"...history repeats itself. The fashion world tried introducing business suits with shorts (I'm pretty sure it was just for women) maybe 10 years ago. Didn't catch on then either.

Eventually some relatively hip portion of the business world (like fashion or advertising) may adopt shorts suits or flipflops (or poodles) to the point that they get a toehold (so to speak) on the business clothing world, and it may expand from there, but till then, no go.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[ziggi]

Ashereng, I'm with you about the shorts wearing, it seems rather sexist that woman can wear short skirts in the office but men can't wear shorts.

I'm also partial to my Birkenstock sandals (aka Jesus boots), even though my wife thinks I look like an old man in them. I tried wearing sandals to work once (back in my intern days), but I was told it was a safety hazard b/c I could drop a file on my foot....somehow I don't think that any other shoe besides forge boots will prevent damage to your feet if a 10lb binder falls on it.

Actually come to think of it, how useful is a steel toe cap anyway? Your toes are protected but the top of your foot is not.

 

[Ashereng]

UcfSE,

It would give more credence if you were female. I don't know if you are.

Personally, my wife likes my legs - so there!


Ziggi,

You can get a steel plate that also laces up to cover the top part of your foot, to the ankle.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ziggi]

Asher
Isn't that what a foundry boot is?

 

[casseopeia]

I ALWAYS look at men's legs. Who doesn't like looking at a nice legs? I'm not even picky about hairy or smooth, although I have been so taken with the a couple of consultants out there with very nice, smooth, skin on their legs that I had to ask them if they waxed. One said not since he was in high school and on the swim team and the other asked what I meant. Apparently he never heard of waxing, nor had he seen the movie 40-year-old virgin.

Ashereng, I actually can wear shorts if I want to. My boss is very much against the company dress policy and wears shorts most of the summer. Normally I don't like to wear them in the field because occasionaly I have to wade through tall weeds in unkempt yards and climb into attics. Pants offer better protection.

ziggi and HgTX, your sandals wouldn't raise and eyebrow out here in Northern California. And here in Marin county, I believe there are communities where Birkenstocks are almost required (Fairfax and Bolinas).




"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[Ashereng]

Ziggi,

Don't know. Never worked in a foundry.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[Ashereng]

casseopeia,



I am glad you are sharing my point of view.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[ziggi]

We should start up a petition for wearing shorts to work in the summer up here in Canada. I've spent some time in both California and Africa and the summers here in Toronto can be worse than in both, due to the smog and humidity.

 

[casseopeia]

Shorts are good. But here's something even better. I found this on in my search for a sari-tying video (for free).

Here's a little clip showing how to properly tie you gillie brouges. Now there's a proper shoe!

But what is that he puts into the piper's sock at the end. knife? folded sheet music? a slide rule?

http://www.nicolsonhighlandwear.co.uk/index.cfm?action=article&articleID=1164

There's more interesting stuff along with sari tying, like making your own Viking era tunic.

http://www.knowledgehound.com/topics/traditional_clothing.htm

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[PSE]

casseopia,

Traditionally, a knife is carried (the type/name momentarily escapes me). Not something that is likely allowed in an office environment. The "joke" was that you could use it on the person who asked the inevitable question as to what you wear underneath the Kilt.

Regards,

 

[duck0601]

I believe it is a sgian dubh