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Is anyone else bitter about work? 37

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shadow401

shadow401

Civil/Environmental
May 3, 2008
21
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US
I don’t know if it’s the engineering field, Corporate America, or just me but does anyone really love being an engineer anymore? Sure, it pays the bills but is anyone actually excited to show up to work in the morning?

Most of the people I work with have become cynical and are more interested in making themselves look good then completing a project. Engineers, developers, government agencies, inspectors, contractor, and sub-contractors are all on different teams and only looking out for their own interests. Even within my own company different departments try to push each other down to appear more profitable. Lazy employees get promoted over hard working employees and it feels like some fundamental rule that we learned in kindergarten about being fair and doing what’s right has been lost. I used to love the though of becoming an engineer but after 7 years of the real world, I just don’t care anymore. Am I alone?
 
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Hmm. There are times when the job just flat out sucks (office politics). There are times (like now) when the boss has sold products for which we don't have the design finished up yet, and the crunch is on to do the final development at gunpoint to meet a ship schedule, then the customer pulls a surprise inspection to witness a test, so you have him pull a random unit off the shelf (from the pieces you are still tweaking, trying to figure out what manufacturing variables are affecting the performance), and you load it in the test cell, cold sweat starting to trickle down your neck and prepare to start the tapdance ... and the unit performs flawlessly. You smile beningly like that is how it was supposed to happen, ain't we great, and go quietly back to work. The boss comes back after dropping the customer at the airport, and you share an earsplitting grin. Then back to work to meet the ship date, and if we hit it he's gonna spring for drinks at the pub...

Ok, parts of that suck. But parts of it, as you figure out the various bits and pieces that weren't working right and the pile of "don't work" parts dwindles, and the pile of "ready to pack & ship" parts grows...yeah, I'm gonna go home now and have a quiet beer. I'll keep my job for awhile longer.
 
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I'm not at all bitter about my job, but that's because I don't work as an ordinary employee engineer any more. I was once an employee engineer working loads of unpaid overtime, saving my company and my company's clients vast sums and yet the only thing I had to show for my efforts at the end of the week was a paycheque for straight time. That made me VERY bitter, and rightly so. The issue is not the money itself- it's the respect the money represents.

What is key is that I didn't just sit around feeling sorry for myself- I found a way to get out. For me, getting out was merely finding a better job, at a company which has this figured out. In fact, for me personally the key was sticking around long enough to RECOGNIZE how great the job was once I'd found it- it wasn't perfect from the get-go.

For others, it may be going into business for yourself. And for others, it may be acknowledging that engineering is not really what you want to do with the rest of your life.

I love the engineering AND the business side of what I do at present- I'd be dissatisfied if either part of the job wasn't there. I don't feel that love all day, every day, but on the whole.

Finding the right situation helps you find the right mental attitude to excel. Merely pretending that stuff doesn't bother you in the name of having a positive attitude is a recipie not only for stagnation, but possibly for a nervous breakdown one day.

I'm very bitter and sad when I think of what our profession once was and what it has become- especially when I realize just how much engineers themselves, or those who were once engineers, have contributed to this decline through their own greed, complacency and hubris.
 
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OK guys, I asked mama, and she said "When she is happy, everyone's happy"

Right now she is happy, so I am happy.

I have a feeling if I chalange mama, she won't be happy, and I won't be happy.
 
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The issue is not the money itself- it's the respect the money represents. . . . . through their own greed, complacency and hubris
Click to expand...

Seems like you hit two out of three with your selfish desire for more money, to boost your pride by knowing you have respect you must be deserving of.

But that probably isn't true. It is all the other engineers out there that want more, for some reason or the other that have hurt the industry, right? I guess I am having a hard time following your point.
 
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TDAA, yes the point needs clarification.

My own compensation (beyond a basic salary) is my share of the profit the organization generates. The profit we generate is earned, not stolen, and does not arise from the exploitation of other engineers. Every engineer here, myself included, and all the other staff as well, get a fair share of the profit we generate as a company. The founders and owners of this company wisely realized that it was in their own self interest to do so.

To clarify my points about the damage to the profession that I attribute to engineers and former engineers themselves: the greed I was referring to is not that of engineers asking too much for their services. Rather, I was referring to the greed of many engineering managers who exploit their staff for their own personal profit- and who for some strange reason we engineers tend to like to elect to positions of power in the bodies that regulate our profession. These folks are, or were, engineers themselves- and were voted into power by engineers. Who do we blame?

Complacency and hubris- we’ve sat around and done nothing- even promoted our profession as a job option to others- while the supply into our profession has swelled, our exclusive right to practice under license was rendered moot, and our compensation relative to that of other professions has fallen dramatically. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.
 
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Following on to Moltenmetal's posts - I'm in the Building Services design and construction side (Consulting M&E), and I started in 1979, and have seen this industry out here in my area (Western Canada) endure three major recessions/economic crises/downturns, whatever, and every time the lean and mean mentality gets worse and worse.

We are an industry that provides fixed fees for unknown amounts of service, and are in a highly competitive market (too many engineers, as Moltenmetal has alluded to in other posts). We endure massive scope creep all the time, we get paid maybe, if the Architect gets paid, and only after we hound them after 60 days, and all we get is negative feedback - the occupants are complaining it's too hot, it's too cold, the hot water doesn't come out of the tap fast enough, your ducts are too big, your pipe is in the wrong place, your air units are too big, your mechanical room is too big....

Rewards? I've seen my net take home stay in a near flatline in the last 10 years even though the gross has been rising, thanks to the tax structure here. The information age has created a situation where many, many more drawing changes can be made faster, e-mail volume has increased to the point where I spend at least an hour or more a day just to read them and then file/prioritize/action them, so my work-day has gotten progressively longer so I can still actually design and coordinate things....

Yeah, I'm bitter, but it's about the particular niche of the industry I'm in, not about actual engineering. And as per a lot of the good advice above, if you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen, make a change....
 
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Never seen the film, only read the book.

Looks like my employer may have got their poop in a group about my particular issue so my rocking has subsided to a moderate head nodding.

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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Molten,

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with where you are coming from.

The greed aspects was one of the worst things with my first job. We had open book management. The CFO would stand up every month and tell us it looked good for hitting the goals and funding the bonus pool. This was correct. What was not mentioned was that when the partners took their bonus payout, that cut the cash that the employee pool was based on, therefore, no bonus. Needless to say, that was part of the bitterness back then.

They have since changed the structure of the bonuses, and pay the employees first, and pay management when there is enough left.

It is nice that some places have learned that an employee with a goal is a good one.

What has gotten to me lately is the notion of pay cuts and furloughs. We expect that an engineer will be "professional" and put in what ever needs to be done to make it happen. In return the salary (typically based on a year) is provided. You give in the good times, the company takes in the bad times. They win. Furloughs are a bit better, but the more I have thought about it, they piss me off, too. Sure, you get the day off and you do not get paid for it. That makes since, but you have essentially become an hourly employee without the same perks such as overtime pay. Once again, they win, and it just leaves employees bitter.
 
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TDAA, while sometimes easier said than done, you do have the option of finding, or trying to find, alternative employment. Assuming you're in the US I believe the 13th Amendment ensures this.

(Thanks Ron, I'll be here all week;-))

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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That's very specific to a particular individual or a group of individuals. I've had the good, or bad, fortune to have seen multiple people in charge over the course of my career (10 GMs in 5 yrs at one particular company), and it's pretty clear that you can have the exact same company, and have an a**hole for a GM, or an absolutely nice guy for GM, and the atmosphere changes accordingly.

Sadly, though, it seems that a**holes have better understanding of what it takes to keep a company afloat, while the nice guys tend to not be able to make the tough decisions. The rare, and best, case is when you get a GM who's nearly an a**hole financially, but has the forethought to not want to be in the position of laying off people during the downturns.

But, none of that relates to ENGINEERING, it's just business. Obviously, today's news about Lehman Brothers is proof of that. Lying SOBs are everywhere, not just in engineering.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
 
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A couple of interesting posts above, on the one hand TDAA comes to the conclusion that cutting pay during a recession is poor management and makes employees bitter ,whilst on the other hand IRstuff comes to the conclusion that laying people off makes the management a bunch of a**holes and makes the employees bitter.

The one thing neither do is come up with an answer of what should be done, you know the sort of things management has to do. I guess to be a good manager you have to sit back and do nothing and just wait for the company to go bankrupt and everyone to loss their jobs. I hope I never become a good boss.

But as IRstuff said none of this has anything to do with engineering it is all down to business. How many business sectors are currently growing? With the possible exception of repo companies, insolvency companies and debt collection not many I am aware of.

Whilst much of the wealth of Europe and the US was built on it none of us are slaves anymore if you do not like something stand up and change it.

The truth is as I see it in the west we have collectively been living beyond our means for a long while now and this is payback time and it hurts, it has nothing to do with engineering.
 
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Ajack, you make some good points, your last paragraph certainly seems to have some truth to it from my point of view.

However, on the not proposing alternatives to lay-offs/pay-cuts I'm not sure it's that simple. While the recent economic events have been very severe in some cases I suspect better management could have reduced the impact.

For instance, at my employer we have some small profit sharing. When they announced pay freezes, then pay cuts & compulsory leave etc. on top of several rounds of lay-offs they also suspended profit sharing. To me this was a massive mistake. What they should have done was increased the profit sharing so that if we somehow pulled it out of the bag & made a profit, this would have compensated for the other cuts. Things like this that wouldn't have actually cost the company any money (unless we made a profit & cold afford it) but would have been incentive to keep working.

Also, how many lay-offs etc. are preceded by some bad management decisions, and/or examples of wasting money such as $50,000 on Christmas parties, or non essential building renovations/improvements etc. Or in one case I saw (previous UK employer), they announced lay-offs just a few weeks before we were expecting a big order to come in, this wasn't just a vague promise but an almost certainty. Instead of keeping the staff, having them prepare for the job making fixtures, crates etc. doing some refurbishment etc. they laid them off, then when we got the order had trouble meeting schedule because we didn't have the staff!

It's these kinds of things that make the lay-offs etc. harder to take.

Posting guidelines faq731-376 (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​
 
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