Italgru crane hydraulic shcematic 2

[phuongnguyen]

Hi everyone, I'm newbie in Mechanic.
Anyone know about reading hydraulic schematic of crane (Italgru C1515)?
I'm concerned about the workflow of hydraulic from starting/working/standby and shutdown especially of Winch.
I attached P&ID of hydraulic shcematic.

Thanks in advanced.

 

[Jboggs]

Most large hydraulics manufacturers include a section on their website on how to read hydraulic schematics. There are also many engineering reference sites with the same information.

 

[phuongnguyen]

@Jboggs: Unlucky, Italgru does NOT have. Would you refer some? Many thanks.

 

[robyengIT]

can't you contact them at

https://italgru.it

?

 

[Jboggs]

https://www.engineersedge.com/search/search.php?zoom_query=hydraulic+symbols

https://www.valmet.com/insights/articles/up-and-running/reliability/FRFluidDwgs1/

https://www.whitehouseproductsltd.c...aspath=/Blog/How-to-Read-Hydraulic-Schematics

https://www.carrlane.com/engineerin...gn-information/hydraulic-symbols-and-diagrams

https://www.lunchboxsessions.com/ma...ls/basic-elements-of-schematic-symbols-lesson

two minutes on Google...

 

[phuongnguyen]

@Jboggs: It's not the same information as you mention. I don't think those simple valves would deal with Italgru system.

 

[LittleInch]

Start with the basics and then move on like this at of lists.

https://hydraulicsonline.com/technical-knowledge-hub/hydraulic-symbols/

But whilst I can read P&IDs fine, hydraulic schematics boil my brain. Also helps to have a description of the operation so you can follow what should be happening.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[MintJulep]

Upon quick review that schematic looks to be nicely done.

It appears to use ISO symbols for fluid power, and actually use them correctly.

Guides to ISO Fluid Power Symbols can be easily found on the web.

It's a complicated piece of equipment, with a correspondingly complicated hydraulic schematic. As LittleInch already said, a description of operation will be very helpful.

 

[3DDave]

A hydraulic schematic is a 2D version of a hydraulic logic program. Just as you would not pick up 5000 lines of C or Python and ask "what does this all do" you cannot deal with a complicated hydraulic program so easily.

The typical software analysis starts with identifying the inputs and the outputs. Which levers and switches are ones people operate and where does the fluid flow come from (look for pumps).

Then you need to have the operator manual to indicate what startup steps are taken, such as where are the controls during startup. Then you can trace the flow based on the valve positions - sometimes that will lead to other valves shifting position and guiding flow.

There are often parts of the circuit in place to keep damage from being done - pressure relief valves in particular. They usually don't do anything unless the operator screws up.

Basically it's a software analysis job with pictures instead of words. It is also related to electronic circuit analysis in that it has many of the same functions - particularly in check-valves similarity to diodes. One could wire up an electrical analog to the hydraulic system and observe the voltages and current flow.

 

[3DDave]

One thing to add - on the schematic there are valves that appear to be operated by parts of the machine moving into position or nearing mechanical limits - you need to know where in the machine they are located and what operates them to understand what they specifically do.

At least they labeled the main functions and most functions are independent; one can slew and winch at the same time.

 

[phuongnguyen]

@LittleInch: Thanks for your help. I contacted with operator but sadly they don't have description.
@MintJulep: I search ISO symbols and see almost valves I need there. Manay thanks.
@3DDave: The way you mention is what I'm going to test: insert pressure gauges to all port in the block to see sequence of hydraulic.

 

[BEMPE16524]

if you have physical system in front of you, start with pump and electrical motor. as you move along the line drawing, mark it on your drawing and cross check with the physical system. it helps you to understand the overall flow but not the details.

R.Efendy

 

[phuongnguyen]

@BEMPE16524: Thanks for your suggestion. That's what I'm doing but not every line has a port for monitoring Pressure.
Besides, anyone know what's the name of these valves in red rectangular (attached file) and how it works?

 

[BEMPE16524]

Besides, anyone know what's the name of these valves in red rectangular (attached file) and how it works?

it's a Wanfluh product. : Link
you can contact them if you want to know the details if you can't understand the datasheet.
most of the time I liaise with their UK office and so far very helpful.

R.Efendy

 

[phuongnguyen]

@BEMPE16524: I thought I was 2 way cartridge valve as you mentioned but is it possible to flow from B to A if B generates force more than spring's force?

 

[3DDave]

Flow from A to B and from B to A are in the data sheet.

 

[Jai Talwar]

Similarly, as a newbie, I inquired about a crane from this manufacturer:Link . They provided me with a drawing and hydraulic schematic, but I can't identify any issues.